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Religious Belief in America - Please no Christians

 
 
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 06:39 pm
There are two factors in American society coming to a head right now. One is the long-running opposition to evolution in this culture," said Robert Boston, a spokesman for Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

"The second is a well-coordinated, well-crafted, slick campaign to repackage creationism. They've stripped it of its more outlandish claims ... their new package is significantly more attractive since it doesn't have all this pseudo-scientific baggage," he added.

Religious and societal changes may also be factors, others say.

The question being debated in more than two dozen states is whether schools should be required to teach some sort of creation concept alongside Charles Darwin's 146-year-old theory of natural selection -- or at the least provide lessons saying some doubt his theories.

The Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank, has reframed the issue as "intelligent design," the concept that evolution alone cannot explain nature's complexity, and it must be the work of a "designer" -- a higher being by implication.

Since 1982, Gallup research has indicated about 45 percent of Americans believe God created human beings "pretty much in their present form" within the last 10,000 years while 38 percent think mankind developed "over millions of years from less advanced" life forms "but God guided this process."

Only 15 percent think God had no part in it -- slightly more than the percentage of the populace that doesn't believe in God in the first place.

And a Pew Forum on Public Life and Religion poll earlier this year found that about two-thirds of Americans favored adding creationism to school curriculum.

Debate over evolution has been a constant thread in American society, before and since the 1925 Tennessee trial that found science teacher John Scopes guilty of violating a state law against teaching evolution. A higher court later overturned the verdict on a technicality without ruling on the merits of the law.

The fact that the debate has returned with such force in 2005 may reflect a time of frightening cultural change when people "look for something that is absolute and certain," said Mark Sisk, the Episcopal bishop of New York.

"I believe that a fair amount of this is an attempt to corner God. And when one does that it approaches idolatry," he added. The Biblical account of creation simply means that "God is the source of everything" and nothing in that conflicts with Darwin, he said.

REDEFINING DEBATE

The Discovery Institute is a central player in the current Pennsylvania trial where parents are suing a school board over a requirement that some students be given a brief statement suggesting intelligent design as an alternative to evolution, and then told of a book elaborating on the design theory.

Redefining the debate along intelligent design lines is an attempt by those who want creation taught in schools to find a "silver bullet" that will get them past adverse court rulings, according to Michael Lienesch, a political science professor at the University of North Carolina.

"The courts say if it's in a science class it has to be science," he said. But intelligent design has gained ground because its backers "have a lot of resources and a more sophisticated infrastructure. They have worked very hard to frame the evolution issue in terms of intelligent design."

"What makes it seem convincing is that it splits the difference between certainty and faith in a way that old-style creationism didn't," adds Kirk Wegter-McNelly, a professor of theology at Boston University. "The search for certainty is important among evangelicals and it's important as people live in an increasingly multi-religious society."

John West, a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, said the debate has ripened because more credentialed scientists are critical of Darwin's theory. The institute has a list of 400 people with a variety of degrees in and out of academia who it said have signed a "dissent."

It states that they are "skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence of Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

What the institute would like to see, West, said, is a requirement that schools "teach the controversy" -- to note in lessons on evolution that not everyone accepts the theory.

That approach is equally abhorrent to Michael Zimmerman, dean of the College of Letters and Sciences at the University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh.

He blames the spreading debate in part on "narrow-minded religious leaders repeatedly saying people have to choose between science and religion." What they really want, Zimmerman said, is "to overturn the scientific paradigm that explains the natural world in materialistic terms."

He has gathered nearly 9,000 signatures of U.S. clergy members on a letter posted online urging school boards to keep teaching evolution "as a core component of human knowledge."

Glenn Branch, deputy director of the National Center for Science Education that is opposed to introducing any form of creationism, said the intelligent design approach is but another attempt to skirt the U.S. Constitution's ban on establishing religion.

He also said the 2002 "No Child Left Behind" law requires states to develop standards for science teaching, and that has opened a new forum for the debate.



Reuters
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,705 • Replies: 49
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 06:49 pm
Interesting, which means bookmark.

But, you know the christians will come running now, dontcha?


(wink...)
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Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 07:04 pm
Perhaps the fact that 45% of Americans believe man was created within the last 10k years is proof that science education and the teaching of evolutionary theory needs to be stepped up a notch.

A question for history buffs: how long did it take for the vast majority of Europeans to come to believe that the Earth was round or that it revolved around the sun and not vice versa?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 07:11 pm
I always knew that a preponderance of humans were still living in the dark ages, but, after so many years of evolution being taught and constant new discoveries, it is apalling how little progress has actually been made.
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jstark
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 07:13 pm
I think the last time the Christian Church had it's way with politics and education we called it the Dark Ages.

What I see happening is the activation of Christians, particularly evangelicals, as a political base for neo-conservativism. They are well organized and orchestrate local state ballot initiatives with federal elections. For example the Ohio State ballot had issues concerning Gay marriage on the ballot during the last presidential election in order to get the conservative voters to the polls.

In order to keep the base activated they need passionate causes and it doesn't hurt if they feel persecuted.

They say the world is run by the people who show up. Well, neo-conservatives are making sure their base is fired up, in neat rows and marching forward. The whole Intelligent Design issue is a piece in an intricate power grab in the US.

Regarding intelligent design specifically, it does not belong in a science class. Starting with the answer simply is not science. It belongs in a class on religion or something.

The statistics you cite regarding peoples belief regarding the creation of all things is more reflective of the lack of good science training in the US as opposed to any well thought out consensus on the subject.

Kind Regards
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 07:45 pm
Thought is almost entirely absent, I think. I do agree with your thesis, for the most, jstark.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 08:17 pm
jstark wrote:
In order to keep the base activated they need passionate causes and it doesn't hurt if they feel persecuted.


It is not persecution so much as feelings of marginalization and insecurity in the face of deep cultural change that is altering many of the core assumption of this, and more broadly, western culture. For example there is an evangelical church (Assembly of God I think) that flys one of those black POW/MIA flags in front of their building. The message is 'the government has abandoned/forgotten you but we wont". Neoconservitives feed off this for their own political and economic ends.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 09:36 pm
Good one acquiunk.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 09:45 pm
I'm a Christian who could care less if ID or creationism is taught in schools. But I am particular about excellence in math, history, language, physics chemistry, biology, etc. If my grandkids are up to snuff on those subjects, they can decide for themselves whether evolutionary theory deserves a place on the academic pedestal.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 09:55 pm
Assertions bereft of data but full of gleaming emotion...

not the scientists.

I don't personally know how to argue.
Pure science is so clear to me - that people can argue against it amazes me.

Given that within science regimen there are data fights... still, I don't understand those who don't understand science.
land of double blind criteria.

On religious belief in america, I feel I am overcome by fog.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 09:55 pm
neologist
I likewise don't care if people believe there is a God. That's personal. I just don't want science and good sense subverted in the schools.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 09:59 pm
Ahhhhh, ditto again...
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 12:02 am
Mills75 wrote:
Perhaps the fact that 45% of Americans believe man was created within the last 10k years is proof that science education and the teaching of evolutionary theory needs to be stepped up a notch.

A question for history buffs: how long did it take for the vast majority of Europeans to come to believe that the Earth was round or that it revolved around the sun and not vice versa?


You're KIDDING, right?

45%????????

Do you have a source for that?


Good grief.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 02:23 am
jstark wrote:
I think the last time the Christian Church had it's way with politics and education we called it the Dark Ages.

Historians dubbed this time the Dark Ages because sources about it are scarce, not because society back then was especially unattractive. The philosophers of the Enlightenment accomplished many great things, but their smearing of medieval Christianity, on which this misunderstanding rests, wasn't one of them. I would argue that on the whole, medieval societies were more humane than the Roman slave society that preceded them, and the absolutist monarchies that followed them. But that is only my opinion.

As for ID, I agree it is a Trojan horse with creationism inside. My preferred solution is to give everyone vouchers for the total cost of educating a child in a public school. This way all parents can have their children taught whatever they want to -- and the need to politicize science and religion would be much alleviated.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 04:53 am
Thomas's preferred solution is to give everyone vouchers for the total cost of educating a child in a public school. This way all parents can have their children taught whatever they want to -- and the need to politicize science and religion would be much alleviated.
If it should prove possible to do so and still preserve the public schools, I would also favor that out. I would, however, pity the child who wants science while being sent by his ignorant parents to a class in ID.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 05:29 am
edgarblythe wrote:
If it should prove possible to do so and still preserve the public schools, I would also favor that out. I would, however, pity the child who wants science while being sent by his ignorant parents to a class in ID.

Under a voucher system, parents will preserve public schools to the extent that they teach their children to their satisfaction -- just as parents will preserve any other kind of school (or not). This seems fair to me.

I don't know what evangelical schools in a voucher system would do about evolutionary biology. My guess would be that they would teach neither ID nor evolution, but cut their science curriculum down, and emphasize the humanities and ancient languages instead. The value of ID to evangelicals is as a defensive weapon against evolution. They currently need such a weapon because it's a politicized school system, and because in political debates you can't beat a theory without an alternative theory. But if schools can act independently to deemphasize the teaching of natural sciences and its politically contentious implications, there is no need for such a defensive weapon, and hence for ID.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 05:39 am
I think this is very interesting.

But since I am a Christian (about 70% of the German population still belong to one of - what we call here - "two big Christian churches" [Evangelical/Protestant and Catholic] ...



Ooops, yes I know, the term 'Christian' is different here.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 05:57 am
dlowan wrote:
Mills75 wrote:
Perhaps the fact that 45% of Americans believe man was created within the last 10k years is proof that science education and the teaching of evolutionary theory needs to be stepped up a notch. [...]


You're KIDDING, right?

45%????????

Do you have a source for that?


Good grief.

Actually more like 50%, says Polling Report.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 06:08 am
Thomas- Interesting link. Thanks. I see that in the CBS poll, the answers were reported by political party affiliation. I think that a poll, divided along the lines of level of education, would be a lot more valuable in giving real information.

As usual, the mainstream press' main interest is in the political implications of an issue.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 06:22 am
The poll is interesting also in that it shows plainly that the religious are not all conservatives or fundamentalists. An equal number are Democrats.
0 Replies
 
 

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