Is there life after death?

JLB & Proudmoore ... a very nice exchange on the topic, very cogent. The difficulty is we must discuss non-existence with language designed to communicate relationships (I/thou, time/space, change). In non-existence all of those touchstones of language become meaningless. "Self", "Perceptual Reality" (multiplicity), and "time/space" (indices of change), disappear. With the collapse of the Perceptual World, of illusion, suffering is finally conquered for the dead. Dead: a cessation of the illusion of self and existence that is the root cause of all suffering. Death is something not to be feared, but to look forward to. "Go to the funeral pyre as others might go to a wedding."

"Our" release from suffering does not necessarily have to await death. By focusing on the moment instead of a past that is gone, or the future that will never be, we can ride the waves of change with much less suffering. By holding the "self" in check, we can avoid much of the suffering that arise from lust, greed, and anger. Live the Middle Way and it is easier to accept the shocks and disappointments of life. Realizing the emptiness of the illusion we transcend the anguish that comes from thwarted ambitions or the loss of "things". The pains endured of sickness and wounds are a challenge, but such suffering can be mitigated by proper attitude, meditation and by understanding the nature of the Perceptual Universe. Once one understands, in the marrow of their bones, the transientness and falseness of the Illusory World, they can not be made fearful, nor angry, nor hungry. Suffering less, they should be more compassionate with the suffering of others, more patient, and willing to risk; for what can be lost if all is ultimately Empty.

You see the fine arguements for non-existence after death are also applicable for "life" and "living". The problem remains language and the presistence of the "need" to believe that we and the World of Multiplicity are Ultimate Reality.

There are two conflicting points of view: (1) The Perceptual World with its I/Thou, time/Space and change concept is the Ultimately Real, OR (2) Ultimate Reality is Empty and without diffrentation, and that all experience/self/time&space are illusory. No one can never "prove" which is the correct hypothesis, and so we are left largely to choose as a matter of belief and faith. But not quite. There have been many people, some not even "religious", who have slipped the bounds the Perceptual World to experience directly non-existence. It is a life altering experience, and I believe, lies at the heart of most religions. With proper preparation the experience of Nothingness (mystical experience to some) is improved, and the experience itself becomes less frightening. Buddhists who report the experience tend to be ecstatic. Some in experiencing the Great Emptiness become certifiably mad, though the root of their madness may be either boundless fear of losing one's self, or great joy at finally being free from the chains of the Illusory World with all its attendent suffering. Who can say what another figure in the dream is thinking?

"What happens to the chairs that deadmen sit upon in our dreams, when we awaken?" To awaken from the Perceptual World is cessation of suffering with the annhilation of "self" and all dualities.

We have not evolved from higher primates, such as apes and gorillas; they and we are evolved from common ancestors.

Terry, I think that your position that experience (mind) is only a function of brain activities is correct. How could we have experiences without a functioning nervous system? At the same the idealists are also correct: brain and all our ideas about neurology are just ideas or mental experiences. I believe that both are partial perspectives. The (cognitive) reality is somewhere between (and beyond) them, what Asherman has referred to as the "middle way" of Buddhism. We must free ourselves from the either-or trap of dualism. Asherman's second paragraph is a great distillation of the core position of Buddhism as proclaimed in the Heart Sutra.

Human genetics makes the whole digital revolution look nothing. Digital technology changes what we do. Human genetics has the power to change who we are. by Patrick Dixon

And what we are... could have a big bearing on the after life???

As was noted above, there is no afterlife, even the Perceptual World we "live" in is an empty illusion, and death is only a non-moment between.

That is, we firmly believe, Ultimate Realtiy ... The Truth.

Perceptual Reality, the world of multiplicity, where time&space and "self" appear real is only a powerful illusion, a dream or nightmare. Suffering arises from the nature of Perceptual Reality. We want to hold to a past that is gone, even as it is lived. We look forward with either anxiety or fervent desire to a future that can never be overtaken, and we overlook the fleeting moment that comes closest to reality. The "self" endlessly craves things, and in inevitably losing them, suffers. It is the "self" that is angry, jealous, greedy and cruel. The "self" is like a wild mustang resentful of discipline and eternally longing for the far horizon. All of these examples lead to suffering, yet few are willing to shake the illusion away; to awaken to the peace of wholeness that is found in merging back into the Buddha nature.

If the illusion is strong enough, it might indeed survive death. Those who wantonly and mindlessly add to suffering and suffer themselves, may suffer the illusion of Hell after death. Those unable to free themselves from the chains of illusion, but who have sincerely tried to mitigate the suffering of the world may enter, for a time, an illusion of Heaven. Both Heaven and Hell and inbetween are just as empty and illusory as this illusion of multiplicity ... and just as impermanent. Death to those in the illusory afterlife is birth. The dream continues and the unreal phantom charactors of the dream continue. NOTE: the "self", which doesn't exist, does not survive birth and death from one phase of illusion to another. That would be transmigration of souls. What continues is the illusion, the dream of a perceptual world of suffering. That is reincarnation. This chain of "causality" can be broken, the dream "self" can "awaken" to Ultimate Reality and be as transformed as the caterpiller is changing into a butterfly. The means of effectuating the "Awakening Experience" is found in the Buddhist sutras, and as available to all sentient creatures. This is Mahayana.

For some, especially the C'han or Zen sects, it makes more sense to cut to the chase without delay. Live well without undue suffering. Mitigate suffering for all sentient beings as much as you are able. Meditate seriously and extend the focus of meditation into each moment of your "life". Accept that you will fail repeatedly to maintain the calm focus needed to bring the wild "self" into full control, but never give up. Be a "spiritual warrior", disciplined and dedicated to the goal of victory over suffering for all. Be prepared, and while cleaning toilets you may be fully Enlightened. When you have had a glimpse of "The Promised Land", bring that vision to as many of the suffering multitudes as possible that their suffering will be made less.

The Buddha: Ultimate Reality, undifferentiated, unchanging outside of time and space. Enlightenment, Awakening to Ultimate Reality, can be instantaneous and may happen to any sentient being, whether "Buddhist" or not.

The Dharma: The chain of causality, the "laws" that govern Perceptual Reality, but that includes the "map" which leads out of suffering into Enlightenment. The Four Noble Truths and the Eight-Fold Path are the sign-posts pointing toward Enlightenment.

The Sanga: The community of Buddhists and sentient beings who labor to mitigate suffering, and to support one another in the quest for eventual Enlightenment. Some are priests, monks and nuns. Some are Buddhist laymen who live as best they might. Some follow the the Path hardly knowing what they are doing. Some experience some degree of Enlightenment, and others do not.


Pay Attention!

Asherman--

A person who has died, whose body we see as "dead", no longer clings to illusion. Reincarnation, itself illusion, is part of the dying process for anyone who hasn't realized the truth.

This is my understanding. Does it conflict with your's?

It appears we may be on the same page. Life/death, both are illusory and empty. I don't believe that dying alone necessarily ends the illusory world. Of course, I don't spend much time worrying about that sort of thing. Its more important to stay focused and disciplined amid countless distractions, all of which hold the potential for suffering. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. LOL.

I'm glad we're at least on the same page. But I am not sure what you mean by this statement.

As I see it, dying is like living. But when a person is "dead" that means they have let go, completely. I also consider that to the dying person, the passage of time may be very much out of scale with those looking on. A dying person may experience many more lifetimes before "death" can occur, in what, to an onlooker, may only be a moment.

To me the problem is not one of life after death, but of a full life after birth.

Quoted for truth and wisdom