Unlawful Park Bench Sitting?

Merry Andrew wrote:

Region Philbis wrote:
that park was a haven for junkies and prostitutes back in the 80's, which may help to explain the reasoning behind the law...

So, then, are you saying that the inability of the police force to enforce city ordinances against vice justifies limiting the freedom of movement of orinary citizens? I don't believe Ms. Cetena was accused of either prostitution nor drug trafficking.

i haven't the foggiest, but i think it may be pertinent to the discussion...

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Another question:

Quote:

they gave her a ticket that could bring a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail.

If such would happen here (which could happen, but I doubt it), you would get a ticket of $ 13 (10 Euros). Normally, however, in such cases the police just asks you to leave ... or looks in another direction.

My question: isn't this a rather high fine or is this looked at to be a serious 'crime'?

[If you have doubts about the constitutional issue: after being fined, you don't oay. The case goes to the court, you get a verdict and THEN go to the Federal (or State) Constitutional Court - or the judge of the local court asks the Constituional Court to prove this.]

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Another question:

Quote:
they gave her a ticket that could bring a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail.

My question: isn't this a rather high fine or is this looked at to be a serious 'crime'?

This is a misdemeanor or "petty" crime.

Nevertheless, if you're a minimum wage earner, you would have to work approximately 240 hours to accumulate enough net pay after taxes to pay a $1,000 fine.

A sentence of 90 days in jail is serious from a practical point of view. How many people could manage their family responsibilities, retain their employment, and/or pay their bills if they were sent to jail for three months?

More likely than not, a first offender would not be sentenced to jail and the court would reduce the fine. Nevertheless, it is possible that the maximum penalties sllowed by law could be imposed upon the convicted offender.

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Thank you for the response to my question Debra_Law, the clarity of the answer is extremely helpful and I appreciate it greatly.

I made a comment about Zero Tolerance Policing on this one. Regardless of the legal issues involved, for mine, unless there are some aggravating circumstances none of us know about, the police have been extremely petty in this situation. The law recognises each officer has discretion as to whether or not they invoke the law and in this case - as I said unless there are circumstances unknown - it appears that discretion has been tossed out of the window.

As young copper if I'd brought that one in I'm sure my Sergeant would have had more than a word to me.

Ah well, autre temps, autre mores.

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Debra_law, Your Hedge v. Lynn decision is most useful, but I believe it comes down on the side of the city being able to establish rules concerning the playground which could preclude non children who are not accompanying children. Unlike city streets and city parks which exist for everyone, playgrounds exist for children just as a public golf course exists for golfers.

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It may be different in the U.S. (as it often is), but people here don't get arrested for being non-golfers on a public golf course.

Those cops were over-zealous IMNSHO. I hope they get their asses cleaned out for them.

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No question that the officer was overreacting. A polite "you're not allowed in here" would have sufficed. The question I was addressing was whether the city had a right to deny the unaccompanied adult access to the playground.

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As for the golf course, true, non golfers can be on the golf course, but I'm sure they could legally be denied the the right to toss frisbees on the fairways.

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flyboy804 wrote:

Debra_law, Your Hedge v. Lynn decision is most useful, but I believe it comes down on the side of the city being able to establish rules concerning the playground which could preclude non children who are not accompanying children. Unlike city streets and city parks which exist for everyone, playgrounds exist for children just as a public golf course exists for golfers.

If this is what you believe, then you haven't been learning the lessons contained in the useful and educational information provided. The preservation of liberty -- of America, the land of the free -- requires eternal vigilance. As a country, we started out with the monumental promise of Equality, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. And throughout our history, there have been those who have been working with their stealthy chisels to surreptitiously chip away at our freedoms while the sheeple graze in ignorant bliss. Chip, chip, chip.

If a 47-year-old woman cannot lawfully sit on a public park bench while she waits for an arts festival to begin, then HOUSTON, we have a problem.

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Debra_Law, If it were a park, I would agree with you; howevere it was a playground. Parks are set aside by the city for everyone, playgrounds are set aside for children.

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As a point of information Rivington Playground is in Sara D. Roosevelt Park, a long narrow park covering 7.8 acres and running north-south for seven city blocks (Houston to Canal Streets). The playground covers one of these blocks.

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flyboy804 wrote:

Debra_Law, If it were a park, I would agree with you; howevere it was a playground. Parks are set aside by the city for everyone, playgrounds are set aside for children.

FYI: Public parks, public streets, public playgrounds, public benches, public sidewalks all fall within the same category where MY right to loiter at my pleasure is at its highest and the government's right to exclude me is at its lowest. Again, the government has no interest compelling enough to exclude me from a public playground.

Are ALL the playgrounds in NYC reserved solely for children and their supervisiong adults or just the playground where the woman was arrested? I'm 47 years old, I dont have any children under the age of 18 to supervise at a playground, but I still like to swing. Where's MY playground? If I'm deemed a potential pedophile and a threat to children simply because I'm an adult and must be excluded from a playground designated for "children and their supervising adults only," do I get a separate but equal playground facility for my public swinging enjoyment? Laughing

Maybe it's time to conduct an equal protection analysis . . . but I don't see the point of fighting for the LIBERTY OF ALL when so many of my fellow citizens don't care one iota and are willing to throw it away piece by piece at every opportunity.

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I can not say for certain whether or not all city playgrounds have such restrictions, but I have seen the ban posted on many. This is from the NYC Dept. of Recreation website:

s) Exclusive Areas

Areas within the parks designated by the Commissioner for exclusive use shall include:

(1) Exclusive Childrens Playgrounds: Adults allowed in playground areas only when accompanied by a child under the age of twelve (12).

(2) Exclusive Senior Citizens Areas: Certain areas of any park may be set aside for citizens aged sixty-five (65) and older, for their quiet enjoyment and safety.

(3) Dog Runs: Certain fenced park areas may be designated by the Commissioner as dog runs, and persons owning or possessing dogs are permitted to allow such animals to remain unleashed in these areas. Users of dog runs shall obey posted rules. All exclusive areas will be specifically designated as such and signs will be posted informing the public of this designation.

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Unlawful Park Bench Sitting?

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