Isaiah 45:7 - God creates Evil

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Isaiah 45:7 from KJV:

Quote:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

This is a very cool quote, indeed.

"I form the light" could be read a couple of ways. It could be that God brings light over from formlessness into the universe of form. It could be that light is formed of God. It could of course be read as "I create the light." Also, it could mean "I shape the light."

"Create darkness." Darkness is absence of light. There could be nothing but light but there is darkness as well. Darkness originates from that which obstructs the light. That which obstructs the light includes us human beings. It also includes nature, planet earth for example, and things like hurricane Katrina to be specific. These obstruct the light. The darkness is what is entailed by their existence.

"I make peace." This could be interpreted as "God is the source and creator of peace." It seems to me that peace is the natural state of the universe and that everything is attracted towards peace as if by some field. When one opposes the field (for want of a better term), anguish and suffering result. The non-living equivalent is equilibrium=peace and nature strives for equilibrium and when it doesn't get it, there is severity. So by saying God makes peace, one could interpret that as meaning God is the field that draws everything towards peace. One could also call this field light, in a metaphorical sense.

"I create evil." Now how exactly does God do this? Was it by creating Satan to tempt people to do evil? Was it by personally creating Adolf Hitler? Or by allowing Hitler to be born? I offer an alternative. How God created evil was by putting the word in the mouths of Its prophets, like Isaiah. The prophets said XYZ is evil and so XYZ is evil. The Bible defines what is evil. If there were no such thing as evil in the Bible, there would be no such thing as evil (for a Christian). An objective observer of planet earth sees no good or evil except as it is created by our minds in the form of judgement. I judge this to be evil. I judge that to be good. This judgement is in alignment with the Bible (for a Christian) which was written with the word evil in it and without which God would not have created evil.

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Your contention that these lines could "read a couple of way" is based on the premise that you are all knowing as to what these interpretations are. You self elevate yourself.

It could also simply mean that God has dominion over light and dark....good and evil etc.

The evil also does not have to be moral evil as we would consider. You could also look at.

James 1:13
No one undergoing a trial should say, "I am being tempted by God." For God is not tempted by evil, and He Himself doesn't tempt anyone.

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I agree that it could mean that God has dominion over all things.

Quote:

The evil also does not have to be moral evil as we would consider.

That is what I meant in my last paragraph.

I don't have to claim to be all knowing of scripture to say that it can be interpreted a couple-three ways.

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I only meant that there could be other interpretations other that those that you submit.

Thank you for the clarification.

Oh, and welcome to A2K

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Brian,

I have read and reread what you posted and I am still not sure if you have a question or not.

Can I ask why you put (for a Christian)?

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Evil does not always represent wrong action. It could refer to dire consequences. So, a more accurate translation of Isaiah 45:7 would use the word calamity.

The worst evil, or calamity, which has befallen mankind is the sentence of death pronounced on Adam and Eve. Additional evils, or calamities, include the flood of Noah's day, and the destruction of Jerusalem.

A future calamity for humans will be the destruction of the ungodly at Armageddon.

None of these evils came or will come without warning.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Brian,

I have read and reread what you posted and I am still not sure if you have a question or not.

Can I ask why you put (for a Christian)?

There was no question in the original post, except now there could be these:
what do you think?
what's your interpretation of the verse?

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BrianT wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Brian,

I have read and reread what you posted and I am still not sure if you have a question or not.

Can I ask why you put (for a Christian)?

There was no question in the original post, except now there could be these:
what do you think?
what's your interpretation of the verse?

BrianT,

Well, I am not really sure what to think here. That thing about if there was no evil in the Bible would there be no evil? I'm not sure I am in agreement with you there. Good is. Evil is. Just saying it's not there (if that were the case) doesn't mean it's not. Now, that may not be the way you meant that. That is how I understand what it says. So, if you can elaborate?

I am in agreement with Intrepid's interpretations. I guess maybe if this discussion continues and I can get a better understanding of exactly where you are coming from I might be able to add something.

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I'm reminded of a quote from Hamlet, I believe.

Shakespeare wrote:

There is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so.

Before we get too deep into this mess, I'll ask you this:
Is it evil to end someone's life? (A mortal to end another mortal's life.)

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BrianT wrote:

I'm reminded of a quote from Hamlet, I believe.

Shakespeare wrote:
There is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so.

Before we get too deep into this mess, I'll ask you this:
Is it evil to end someone's life? (A mortal to end another mortal's life.)

I would imagine why and how you ended that life would make a big difference.

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That is a perfect demonstration of the principle written in the quote, "There is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so."

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BrianT wrote:

That is a perfect demonstration of the principle written in the quote, "There is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so."

Are you saying that if you don't think ending someone's life is evil then it isn't evil?

I am really trying to understand you here so please bear with me on the questions.

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Since you're asking, I don't think anything is evil (or good for that matter).

If I think something is evil, that does not suddenly make it evil. Let me turn your question around: Are you saying that if you do think ending someone's life is evil then it is evil?

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BrianT wrote:

Since you're asking, I don't think anything is evil (or good for that matter).

If I think something is evil, that does not suddenly make it evil. Let me turn your question around: Are you saying that if you do think ending someone's life is evil then it is evil?

It's not evil just because I think it's evil. Evil is. Good is. Hate is. Love is. Right is. Wrong is.

And again, it depends on the intent and method of the ending of the life.

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Momma Angel wrote:

BrianT wrote:
Since you're asking, I don't think anything is evil (or good for that matter).

If I think something is evil, that does not suddenly make it evil. Let me turn your question around: Are you saying that if you do think ending someone's life is evil then it is evil?

It's not evil just because I think it's evil. Evil is. Good is. Hate is. Love is. Right is. Wrong is.

And again, it depends on the intent and method of the ending of the life.

Not to be obtuse MA, but in another thread you mentioned that words such as "proof" were simply made up by man. Guess the same goes for "evil" and "good".

A scenario to consider:

You're walking along a sidewalk on a sunny day. On your stroll you happen to walk through an ant bed, smashing hundreds of ants and wrecking the hive. To the ants are you then evil?

Good and evil are all a matter of perspective. Humanity shares some opinions of what evil is, however some don't. Given that disparity, how can anything be considered absolutely evil or good?

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Questioner wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
BrianT wrote:
Since you're asking, I don't think anything is evil (or good for that matter).

If I think something is evil, that does not suddenly make it evil. Let me turn your question around: Are you saying that if you do think ending someone's life is evil then it is evil?

It's not evil just because I think it's evil. Evil is. Good is. Hate is. Love is. Right is. Wrong is.

And again, it depends on the intent and method of the ending of the life.

Not to be obtuse MA, but in another thread you mentioned that words such as "proof" were simply made up by man. Guess the same goes for "evil" and "good".

A scenario to consider:

You're walking along a sidewalk on a sunny day. On your stroll you happen to walk through an ant bed, smashing hundreds of ants and wrecking the hive. To the ants are you then evil?

Good and evil are all a matter of perspective. Humanity shares some opinions of what evil is, however some don't. Given that disparity, how can anything be considered absolutely evil or good?

Questioner,

I figured sooner or later that would come into this. I was assuming evil was being used to describe a certain feeling, type of deed, etc. Yes, any word could be given to it. We could have called love spinach for that matter.

I was not referring to the word itself but to it's meaning.

I haven't a clue as to what ants think or even if they do think beyond trying to stay alive and find food so I can't answer that question.

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I don't think it's a good analogy because humans are definitely sentient whereas ants are not definitely sentient.

It did make me wonder about a Type III civilization* viewing humans as ants and squashing us as they make their way to another galaxy. Also, made me wonder what a Type III would view as evil.

Hate is an emotion which can be experienced; that's what proves it exists.

Evil is defined to exist. Hitler is defined to be evil. Genocide is defined to be evil. The definition is arbitrary.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

*http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-5570

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BrianT wrote:

I don't think it's a good analogy because humans are definitely sentient whereas ants are not definitely sentient.

It did make me wonder about a Type III civilization* viewing humans as ants and squashing us as they make their way to another galaxy. Also, made me wonder what a Type III would view as evil.

Hate is an emotion which can be experienced; that's what proves it exists.

Evil is defined to exist. Hitler is defined to be evil. Genocide is defined to be evil. The definition is arbitrary.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

*http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-5570

BrianT,

I am sorry, but you are way over my head here. I have no idea what you seem to be trying to say. I don't have much experience with physics.

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A Type 3 civilization is one that is basically far superior to ours in terms of technology.

You can ignore the first two paragraphs in my last post and just consider the rest. The first two paragraphs were for Questioner.

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Isaiah 45:7 - God creates Evil

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