6
   

first european muslim state?

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 05:53 am
I googled "riots Europe" and got Brusselsjournal.

Do you dispute the content of the articles?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:11 am
Still say "Europe is ablaze" with Islamic violence?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:17 am
Do you dispute the articles?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:36 am
So, you are quoting here now unbiased news not only from conservative US magazine but from neo-nazi/fascist Belgium magazines as well.


As you said somewhere else: you are no racist.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:38 am
Those dastardly Belgians, they'll stop at nothing ! ! !
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:46 am
You didn't ask me, Lash, but if: anything I read from someone of the Vlaamse Block or any other similar Nazi - at least I doubt it.

I especially doubt ALL what is written by the Vlaamse Block re their relation to Jews, Germany and France ... the reason can easily be followed by someone like you, who knows more than just a little bit of history.

--------------

The following pic shows the number of citizens with Muslim faith (2nd figure) in some European countries (population 1rst fugure)

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,538548,00.jpg
0 Replies
 
Jim
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 08:57 am
I hope you are right. I really hope you are.

We've all seen what can happen when certain Politicos think they are experts in a field because they've read two or three articles, or maybe watched a documentary on The History Channel, and then go and launch a war in Viet Nam or Iraq. And of course we are all against such types of thinking. That's why I'm so amazed at so many of the stated positions on Islam posted here.

I belive there is a flaw in the way people are designed (or evolved) that too many of us see things as we want them to be, or as we hope they are.

Like I said at the beginning, I really do hope you are right.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 10:22 am
Since I've never read these sources, Walter, I'm certainly not responsible for what they write. Are you saying that one who happens upon these sites are racist?

Do you deny the countries mentioned are experiencing riots by Muslims? If you deny it, why don't you say so?
0 Replies
 
Ellinas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 11:08 am
daniellejean wrote:
Great Map! Did you make it?!


No, I found it at a forum.

Walte Hinteler wrote:
If Ellinas studies at Vienna Technical University ... that's possible.

(Its from a student's blog)


I just found it at another forum as I told, I didn't checked more details from the URL. Now I understand why Austria has that name Very Happy .
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:32 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
So, you are quoting here now unbiased news not only from conservative US magazine but from neo-nazi/fascist Belgium magazines as well.


As you said somewhere else: you are no racist.



Ah, interesting, Walter.

I was getting that idea about the editor fella, but I didn't have time last night to really look at a lot of his stuff.

It was interesting looking at a bit of it, though.

He is an actual neo nazi? Does he also attack jews, blacks etc., or only islam?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:39 pm
He's officiall no neo nazi, but member in a 'rightish' (to put it mildly) party.
His wife, hwoever, is a member of the 'Vlaamse Block' [this party is re-named/re-founded, since it was forbidden in Belgium due its neo-nazi and racism activities], even in the European Parliament.

The Vlaamse Block used signs similar to the German Nazis, is anti-Jewish and most still (would) support Hitler.
It's the biggest (by influence, since presented in several Flemish county/town councils) extreme right wing party in Europe.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:45 pm
Oh, and they changed the subject, trying to avoid to be forbidden: anti-Jewish became anti-Muslim.

Which isn't surprising: German neo-Nazi groups did the same. (And I truely believe, if there had been more Muslims than Jews in Germany, Hitler had done so as well. They are all the same.)
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:06 pm
This is how it seems to me....new times, new nazi scapegoat...

Not that I do not think Islamic fundamentalism a danger, most of all, perhaps, to Muslims.....but I do not think this obsessive hatred a way to assist in combatting it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:11 pm
Of course Islamic fundamentalism is a (great) danger - like any other fundalism - no doubts about that at all.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:43 pm
Walter, sounds as though you know a lot about all this.....can you talk more about what you know, maybe in Set's thread? Like, about immigrants etc.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 04:18 pm
I suppose, I'm totally biased, since I "most totally" oppose all those right wings.
I don't want history to be repeated with what we had had here in Germany.
0 Replies
 
daniellejean
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 09:35 pm
I agree Walter. And I might add, in light of recent events in Paris, that I spent four months in France this past spring, and met many North African Arabs and Berbers. They were all formidable people who had interesting and intelligent things to say. I tried to avoid the subject of religion as much as possible, except with my good friend Ahmed, who was a berber, and really rather contemtuous of the Islamist Fundamentalists that caused so much violence in Algeria during the 1990's (he was about 14 in 1995, and so the violence was occurring during his formative years). He was imprisoned at 20 for opposing Islamic Fundamentalists. And yet, he remained a Muslim, and faithful to God in a general sense. Basically what I learned was that all Muslims are not violent, and some of them are really rather angry at being given this bad name. The problem is that this violence is no longer just a problem of Algeria, or of Iraq, or of Kuwait. This is a problem that is being brought to our back doors in Paris, and in New York, and in London because of immigration, and particularly mistreatment of immigrants due to prejudices about all Muslims being terrorists. I wonder about whether those riots in Paris were started because of Prejudices and only in the heat of the violence became about religion. Immigration of Muslims to Europe is something that will have to be confronted because these people cannot stand to live in the heat of their own countries but are not integrating well into European society. What is to be done to keep everyone happy?
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 09:46 pm
I said this on another thread and will repeat it here. Not all North Africans are Muslims. (For that matter, even all Arabs aren't Muslims.) In France, especially, there is a large number of Algerians and Moroccans who poisitively bridle at being called Muslims. They identify themselves as atheists quite proudly. There's even a sprinkling of Christians. We Americans -- and others in the West, also -- are so eager to identify this as a kind of religion-based conflict that we fail to recognize the ethnic injustices which occur, quite apart from any religious sensibilities. A person of Algerian descent, who thinks of himself as a French citizen, fails to get a job because his name is Mustaf, not Marcel, and the resentments grow.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 02:09 am
Of course....but blind prejudice will not care for such realities.....theirs or ours.
0 Replies
 
daniellejean
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 09:13 am
I agree with Mary Andrew, and I was very pleased to see on CNN this morning that they recognized that the conflict was not about Islam and was instead about injustices due to unemployment.
0 Replies
 
 

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