4
   

where does שאַפע come from?

 
 
klezmer
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2025 02:01 am
As a child I heard my mom and bubby refer to a small wardrobe or closet
as a shafa. Today, as I was doing my Yiddish lessons,
I learned the word for closet is שאַפע (shafa). My bubby was born in
Ukraine and spoke Yiddish, Russian and I presume Ukrainian.
The word for closet in Ukranian is шафа (shafa). The word for closet
in Russian is шкаф shkaf.

So what do you think, did Yiddish speakers borrow the Ukraine word for
closet? or Ukrainian speakers borrow the word from Yiddish? Or are there
other languages that also use shafa for closet?
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glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2025 03:53 am
@klezmer,
klezmer wrote:

As a child I heard my mom and bubby refer to a small wardrobe or closet
as a shafa. Today, as I was doing my Yiddish lessons,
I learned the word for closet is שאַפע (shafa). My bubby was born in
Ukraine and spoke Yiddish, Russian and I presume Ukrainian.
The word for closet in Ukranian is шафа (shafa). The word for closet
in Russian is шкаф shkaf.

So what do you think, did Yiddish speakers borrow the Ukraine word for
closet? or Ukrainian speakers borrow the word from Yiddish? Or are there
other languages that also use shafa for closet?


Without double checking my memory sources, I thought Yiddish was a common language derived from Russian, Ukraine, German and a few other eastern European languages to serve as a common language all Jews would understand. They still had their primary language but it was important for all Jews to be able to move from place to place and be able to communicate. In many cities from the late 20's thru the 60's many people also understood Yiddish because it just became part of the local knowledge. I think there are still many places where it's understood, it's a fascinating form of communication.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2025 06:21 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
I thought Yiddish was a common language derived from Russian, Ukraine, German and a few other eastern European languages to serve as a common language all Jews would understand.
Actually, Yiddish is a German dialect mixed with Hebrew and Slavic language elements.
Until 1200 AD, this language was Jewish German - three quarters of it consisted of medieval German and one quarter of Hebrew expressions.
The actual Yiddish language only developed through contact with the
Slavic language area. The Jews who migrated back westwards from around the 17th century brought this Yiddish with them.


In "Jiddish" (as it's called here) a small wardrobe or closet would be schrankele (diminutiv of "schrank").
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2025 07:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Well done. That was more of a detailed explanation than I had previously understood. I might add a large percentage of Yiddish speakers are of Ashkenazi heritage. A smaller percentage have Sephardic heritage (during the diaspora) and as such have Spanish language mixed in.

My parents spoke it (when they didn’t want us to understand their discussions). One parent’s parents were from what was to become Lithuania and the other from Poland. So thei blended language was a mix of both versions. My oldest sister understood more than us younger ones.

Back to the subject, I’ve got no clue as to the meaning.
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Ragman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2025 08:23 am
[edit: When you use Wiki to look up the derivation of the Ukrainian word ‘Shafa’, it explains that the term is originally borrowed from the Chinese language.]
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klezmer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2025 02:33 am
Thank you glitterbag, Walter & Ragman for your thoughts about the word shafa.

Yes, Yiddish does have its roots in German, with borrowed words from Slavic countries as well as Hebrew. A friend of mine who's from the U.S. but now living in Germany is a linguist. I showed him a YT clip of a lady making gefilte fish. She spoke in Yiddish with a noticeable Eastern European accent. My friend who is now fluent in German, says he recognizes a particular place in Germany where the vocabulary and pronunciation are similar to her Yiddish

I agree, many Yiddish speakers are of Ashkenazi heritage and come from central & eastern Europe. Many of Sephardic heritage came from the Iberian peninsula which did have Spanish language mixed in. However their language is Ladino, not Yiddish. and other languages influenced Ladino depending on where the people lived, including Portuguese, French, Italian, Arabic, Greek, Turkish and Hebrew.

I had a similar experience with Yiddish in my home. My parents spoke it when they didn't want us to understand them. My maternal ancestry is from Ukraine and paternal from Latvia, (current day Lithuania). My maternal grandparents spoke mostly Yiddish at home. When they didn't want their children to understand, they spoke Russian.

I did follow the wiki reference of shafa to Chinese. Yet when I looked up the actual Chinese characters in 3 different online translators, it returns sofa (couch).

For those interested in hearing Yiddish gefilte fish recipe, here it is. (I admit it is fun to listen to as it may remind you of relatives who are no longer with us. Chanele's daughter speaks some Yiddish too, but with a New York accent)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_q2pyW_tTo
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2025 04:14 am
@klezmer,
klezmer wrote:
My friend who is now fluent in German, says he recognizes a particular place in Germany where the vocabulary and pronunciation are similar to her Yiddish
German has also borrowed numerous words from Yiddish. We use many of them every day without being aware of their Yiddish origins: chutzpah, meshugge, tacheles and schlamassel, to name the most common ones. But that's not all! If you were to list all the Yiddish expressions that have found their way into German, you could fill a small book with them.

Incidentally, the Berlin dialect has a whole lot more Yiddish loanwords to offer
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