I will briefly prove that God's existence is impossible: God has a great many impossible traits. Examples are telepathy, thoughts existing outside of a brain, being eternal, having the ability to create matter through thought, omniscience, etc. No physicist is going to say that science points to the existence of any of these (because it doesn't) individually. With that in mind we have considerably less reason to believe they all exist within one sapient entity (a God). So, therefore God's existence is impossible...unless you are willing to seriously consider the existence of other things we have no reason to believe exist, like me being a pink elephant.
So, there is no reason to speak about God's existence as if it's a serious consideration, and because there are no logical arguments for God's existence (noting that if there were, the physicists would have alerted us to their reasons for why all of those aforementioned traits of God exist) that means people believe in God purely due to emotional bias, peer pressure, the view that most people do, and other non-logical reasons.
With that in mind, the fact that most people believe in God pretty much necessitates that logical arguments don't work well to convince people God doesn't exist, or else everyone would be atheists by now.
So, what's a great and efficient way to convince people that some idea isn't true, that doesn't involve the usage of logical reasoning? The best way I can think of to do that, is to try to convince them that the people they perceive as respected authorities are not necessarily correct. Most people don't have time to do much research, and we like to settle on finding some people we can trust and follow their views. For most people, I'm thinking that "respected authority" is the vast majority of human beings who believe in God, and the atheists and agnostics who cautiously treat the issue as if they aren't sure God doesn't exist. This, I would think, helps convince people that: "Surely, if everyone else thinks God's existence is a respectable possibility, I'd be a fool to at least not consider its existence, wouldn't I?"
This allows mental-gymnastics based arguments for God like the teleological, Ontological, and Cosmological arguments to more easily trick people into God belief.
So, I'm a gnostic atheist. I know God doesn't exist. I'm not agnostic towards God's existence. I'm not an agnostic atheist. I'm gnostic. I'm quite confident God doesn't exist for the exact same reason I know I'm not a pink elephant.
Now, technically I could be a pink elephant. There are no patterns I can think of pointing to that being true, and therefore I'm pretty sure I'm not a pink elephant, but in a basically useless albeit technical sense, I could be a pink elephant, despite that I know for a fact I'm not.
In the exact same way, God could exist. There are no patterns I can think of pointing to that being true, and therefore I'm pretty sure God doesn't exist, but in a basically useless albeit technical sense, God could exist, despite that I know for a fact it doesn't.
And I suspect, because of the way humans seem to think, me calling myself a gnostic atheist (someone who knows God doesn't exist) helps normalize that perspective and makes it seem less rebellious and strange, and that's good, because the standard position should be that God's existence is impossible. We should be treating that as the normal, non-controversial view to help destroy this more common irrational mentality in which it's just taken for granted that you can't know God doesn't exist.
Understand what I'm saying? Thoughts?
I figure it's kind of like how, with homosexuality, you can normalize that by spreading the word that more people are gay, and that's a way to get people more comfortable with it and accepting of it. I'm thinking atheism works the same way.
I believe most people are hardwired to believe or not believe. If you train them from childhood to be one or the other, it ultimately makes no difference. They will believe as they are hardwired to believe (excepting cases perhaps of extreme trauma).
0 Replies
Frank Apisa
0
Reply
Wed 26 Nov, 2025 01:25 pm
@Clinton Borror,
Clinton Borror wrote:
I will briefly prove that God's existence is impossible: God has a great many impossible traits. Examples are telepathy, thoughts existing outside of a brain, being eternal, having the ability to create matter through thought, omniscience, etc. No physicist is going to say that science points to the existence of any of these (because it doesn't) individually. With that in mind we have considerably less reason to believe they all exist within one sapient entity (a God). So, therefore God's existence is impossible...unless you are willing to seriously consider the existence of other things we have no reason to believe exist, like me being a pink elephant.
So, there is no reason to speak about God's existence as if it's a serious consideration, and because there are no logical arguments for God's existence (noting that if there were, the physicists would have alerted us to their reasons for why all of those aforementioned traits of God exist) that means people believe in God purely due to emotional bias, peer pressure, the view that most people do, and other non-logical reasons.
With that in mind, the fact that most people believe in God pretty much necessitates that logical arguments don't work well to convince people God doesn't exist, or else everyone would be atheists by now.
So, what's a great and efficient way to convince people that some idea isn't true, that doesn't involve the usage of logical reasoning? The best way I can think of to do that, is to try to convince them that the people they perceive as respected authorities are not necessarily correct. Most people don't have time to do much research, and we like to settle on finding some people we can trust and follow their views. For most people, I'm thinking that "respected authority" is the vast majority of human beings who believe in God, and the atheists and agnostics who cautiously treat the issue as if they aren't sure God doesn't exist. This, I would think, helps convince people that: "Surely, if everyone else thinks God's existence is a respectable possibility, I'd be a fool to at least not consider its existence, wouldn't I?"
This allows mental-gymnastics based arguments for God like the teleological, Ontological, and Cosmological arguments to more easily trick people into God belief.
So, I'm a gnostic atheist. I know God doesn't exist. I'm not agnostic towards God's existence. I'm not an agnostic atheist. I'm gnostic. I'm quite confident God doesn't exist for the exact same reason I know I'm not a pink elephant.
Now, technically I could be a pink elephant. There are no patterns I can think of pointing to that being true, and therefore I'm pretty sure I'm not a pink elephant, but in a basically useless albeit technical sense, I could be a pink elephant, despite that I know for a fact I'm not.
In the exact same way, God could exist. There are no patterns I can think of pointing to that being true, and therefore I'm pretty sure God doesn't exist, but in a basically useless albeit technical sense, God could exist, despite that I know for a fact it doesn't.
And I suspect, because of the way humans seem to think, me calling myself a gnostic atheist (someone who knows God doesn't exist) helps normalize that perspective and makes it seem less rebellious and strange, and that's good, because the standard position should be that God's existence is impossible. We should be treating that as the normal, non-controversial view to help destroy this more common irrational mentality in which it's just taken for granted that you can't know God doesn't exist.
Understand what I'm saying? Thoughts?
I figure it's kind of like how, with homosexuality, you can normalize that by spreading the word that more people are gay, and that's a way to get people more comfortable with it and accepting of it. I'm thinking atheism works the same way.
You really need a course in logic. Or...a serious remedial course in logic if you slept through one already.
Your logic is miserable.
If you have a "C" that reads, "Therefore there are no gods"...please offer the P1 and P2 that gets there. We can discuss.
If you live in the United States...enjoy your Thanksgiving. Although I recognize that you may live in a higher state of existence where the day is not celebrated. In which case, enjoy your life. It must be a great one.
A good example of my 'hardwired' assertion is Madelyn Murray Ohair and her two boys. Those boys were subjected to hardcore propaganda. The brainwashing did not hold in her oldest boy. He rejected her ideas and became a minister.
0 Replies
ekename
-1
Reply
Thu 27 Nov, 2025 07:55 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
In which case, enjoy your life. It must be a great one.
Thank you.
What a delight it must be in your dotage to eschew the substance of the topic and focus on the shadow of your umbrage instead.
In which case, enjoy your life. It must be a great one.
Thank you.
What a delight it must be in your dotage to eschew the substance of the topic and focus on the shadow of your umbrage instead.
It is, indeed...and you must be happy that I am so easily delighted.
You might re-read what I wrote to you. It may say more about the substance of the topic than you realized at first blush.
We'll interact tomorrow. I'm doing the cooking...and won't have the time I want to devote to what you have to "say."
0 Replies
izzythepush
1
Reply
Thu 27 Nov, 2025 04:56 pm
@Clinton Borror,
0 Replies
edgarblythe
2
Reply
Thu 27 Nov, 2025 09:42 pm
The kind of magic ascribed to gods occurs only in books and folklore. It's all founded in fear and wishful thinking, grounded in anthropomorphism. When you get out of bed in the morning, the last thing you will expect to happen is some magic incident instead of the daily routine, because your inner self knows what is truly possible. The little kids in Gaza are the same. They know all too well there is no magic out there that will save them. This life is only secure for some, and only temporarily at that.
0 Replies
Frank Apisa
1
Reply
Fri 28 Nov, 2025 05:23 am
@ekename,
ekename wrote:
While frank's lecture on syllogism is as risible as 'christ, i don't believe or not believe' posture.
If you think that way try providing examples of how belief in imaginary beings harms society.
If you think there is something wrong or illogical with asserting, "I do not know if any gods exist or not"...
...offer something on the issue that makes more sense (and is truthful)...WITHOUT ASSERTING, "I do not know if any gods exist or not"...or substantively inferring it.
I have asked many self-described "atheists" to do that...and have never had a reasonable response. Most, in fact, just run away from the issue...never truly responding to it.
That's what really brightens up your day, some self-centred pseudo intellectual gobshite deciding what you are.
I believe in free will, you can call yourself whatever you want, and if anyone says otherwise they can stick it where the Sun don't shine.
Exactly.
As you know, I describe my position rather than use a label. A label, if used, should be self-decided.
My position is clear:
I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...nor do I see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess about which is more likely…so I do not guess on either of those things.
(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)
As you pointed out, Ekename has decided HE is going to choose a label for me...in a laughable attempt at a syllogism. He got that last syllable correct.
I guess making that choice for me was his way of avoiding arguing the merits of our disagreements.