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Mon 12 Sep, 2005 08:15 am
I was watching Bill Maher's HBO show RealTime this weekend, and he did an interview with Kurt Vonnegut (sci-fi guy). One of the observations Vonnegut made was that the Republicans are often up in arms about the Ten Commandments, and how Christians are being persecuted because they are not being allowed equal expression of their faith because their monuments to the Ten Commandments aren't being allowed; but you never hear about a group of angry Republicans trying to get the sayings of Jesus memorialized in some public square.
He went on to say that if Jesus did show up today, talking that radical stuff about the meek and merciful being blessed, he'd probably receive lethal injection in place of crucifixion.
It struck me, while listening to the venerable Vonnegut, how true that is, and how revealing that is about those who wrap themselves most conspicuously today in their "Christian" persona. They don't want to talk about Jesus. (It's the same way that I get upset around MLK day because nobody wants to hear about the real MLK - the war protesting, rabble rousing, speaking-the-unpopular-truth-to-power MLK. They want to use the same couple of sound bytes they can co-opt for their own bent assed motives.) They don't want to hear that Jesus hung out with the dispossessed and homeless and prostitutes, and talked about turning the other cheek, loving those who hate you, and taking care of the poor and sick. In any case, I wonder why we don't see any Southern Baptist Judge making an issue out of tring to get a 20 ton marble version of the Beatitudes plopped in front of his courthouse. Or anybody saying much about what Jesus said.
With the neocons, spirituality is all rhetoric.
snood, I'm not quite certain what you mean, buddy, about the beatitudes.
Well Letty, I don't understand what part you don't understand. could you ask me more specifically?
Quote:Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Posting these might make it seem that Christians had some kind of moral obligation to comfort mourners, give land to the meek, right wrongs, show mercy, erect statues of peacemakers instead of generals, and allow free speech. Better to threaten hellfire for committing sins than promising blessings for being nice.
<smile> Are you saying that the Beatitudes should be displayed as a point of controversy as in the Ten Commandments?
I'm very strong on separation of church and state, Snood.
Ok, Terry. I understand now. If the Beatitudes were featured on government property, the powers at be might have to live up to those edicts.
Thanks for the explanation of what the Beatitudes are, Terry.
I like 'em.
soz, you're saying you didn't know what they were?
Snood,
I was wondering if you were still around. I am so glad you are!
I myself am not quite sure what the question is here. So, let me just ask specific questions.
Are you saying most Christians don't speak of Jesus and what He did and who He hung around with, etc.?
Are you saying the beatitudes should or should not be up there with the Ten Commandments.
Sorry for my confusion.
Hey, Momma. Glad I'm not the only one confused, then. We'll wait for snood to acknowledge.
Let's take one of the beatitudes as an example:
Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God.
Given the government's stance in Iraq, I would conjecture that this is purely "speaking with forked tongues."
Hey Letty!
I can understand how some of the things in the Bible may seem a bit confusing. However, the Beatitudes are not something I get too confused by. Being called the Sons of God means that you are in the family so to speak, as Christians (IMO) for the most part, feel God is the father.
And the beatitudes are spoken on a one person to one person basis. If everyone in the world lived by the beatitudes then there would most likely be a whole different thing going on.
It's very difficult when you start mixing the world with God. God is not of this world. It's us of this world that try to mix in our wants and needs with those of God and it can get very confusing.
It's nice to see you Letty! How have you been?
Momma, pretty good for a mugwump. <smile>
I have often joked about the "peacemaker" here on the forum, because often, when I try to smooth ruffled feathers, I get ignored.
Altered somewhat:
Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be ignored. In a way, that is metaphorical for the war protesters.
I am with you there Letty. I don't know how many times I try to make peace and I either get ignored or really railed at! LOL.
But, it's just the fact that you try to do the right thing that is important.
Well MA...if you were confused before...I imagine you are going to be even more confused after what I have to say.
Snood...
...I not only agree with every word you wrote in your introduction to this thread...
...I consider it to be one of the best presentations I've seen on A2K to date.
The observations were completely on the mark...and you made them without compromising any of your own convictions with regard to the issues.
On the issue raised:
I'm not really sure why the Beatitudes do not get the attention the 10 "commandments" get. They are the product of Jesus as opposed to the god of the Old Testament...they incorporate more "humanity" than any of the material in the Torah...and they certainly seem to embody the "kind, compassionate, humanity loving" spirit Christians seem so anxious to impart to their god than anything contained elsewhere in the book...including not only the Old Testament, but also the "teachings" of Paul.
Good observations.
Excellent matters for the Christian apologists on this site to ponder and offer response.
Okay, who hijacked Frank's avatar and his userid? OMG! I cannot believe you actually said that!
But, after reading it again, you are so right. Why is it that the Beautitudes are not 'up there' with the Ten Commandments? Surely, they display the teachings of Jesus so much better than the Ten Commandments. I don't ever remember wondering that. Snood, that is such an excellent topic.
You know, maybe if the Beautitudes were 'up there' with the Ten Commandments, maybe it would be easier for non-Christians to understand a bit easier. Kudos Snood!
And Frank, still being a gentleman? I am so pleased! You are a nice guy when you let it show!
"...and it shall come to pass that the bull dog and the snood shall lie down together, and the dumb of the tongue shall speak...." <smile>
Wow! I could have sworn that I said that earlier, Frank:
Are you saying that the Beatitudes should be displayed as a point of controversy as in the Ten Commandments?
I'm very strong on separation of church and state, Snood.
Letty,
You know how it is. Sometimes just takes those different words. I hate when that happens!
Something tells me that we are being ignored.
Well, I won't ignore you, Letty!
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