How Free Are You?

i voted yes. the short answer (brain not fully engaged yet) free will.

"brain not fully engaged yet" sounds like instinctive or patterned response rather than an act of free will.

no, still finishing up at work while peeking into a2k.

i voted no. society is too important, at least from my perspective and i would not choose something that would cast me out, or that i would consider immoral (large part of the understanding of morality is socially based also, we are socialized into it from birth)

Yes of course. Working for a living is a perfect example.

Every time I clean the floors.
Some days when I go to work.

Do it all the time. But then, when one is retired, it may be as a result of long mental training to do anything one thinks is the best choice at that moment - not the wisest. I think most of us fall into a pattern after awhile. Our thinking is flexible up to a point, but limited by our past. c.i.

No one is absolutely free. There always are economic constraints that limit our personal freedom.

I voted yes, however I still have a question. Optimal for whom? Making a decision that is optimal for everyone is rarely possible. Making a decision that is optimal for myself is frequently possible, but optimal how? To satisfy my heart, brain, emotions? I don't feel that most decisions fulfill all of my wants and needs all the time. I may choose one over the other so I don't think that many decisions are ever truly 'optimal'. I may make a decision that is only optimal for someone or something besides myself.

Sugar beat me. That was my question, too. I always try to do what is "optimal", but "optimal" can mean all kinds of different things -- what is best for the community, what is best for my sanity, what is best for my daughter -- so I find it hard to answer the question.

Hmm. . . . I sometimes choose to do what I want, not what needs to be done. I also choose what I want to do instead of what society tells me to do. Does that answer the question?

All of those sound like constraints to me. Can you make really, truly free decisions if you have to accomodate your benefit, benefit of those you love, and norms of the society?
and economic reason, too, is valid. is an employment, for example, a free choice? It is an optimal choice. We do it because we need money, would we choose to do it even if we didn't have to? Can you choose not to work? In theory surely so, but the consequences alone would prevent you from making that choice voluntarily (in most cases anyway). That's why optimal choices are optimal. If not chosen, you would have to deal with consequences of being worse off. And i believe consequences are taken into account in the decision-making process.

You're right, Sugar. Even if we do everything the "right" way to benefit ourselves for the present and the future, much also depends on our environment and luck. *Although many will say you bring your own luck. In my case, I feel blessed to have accomplished as much as I have. I've struggled in many ways during my young adult life, but was able to retire early at 63. We're not wealthy, but I'm able to travel this world two or three times every year. Life has been good to me. c.i.

Just another person who voted no
Free will is in its truest form impossible. No one, as far as I can remember, ever asked me if I wanted free will. Thus to have free will you must have chosen it, which requires itself. A circular argument, you see? Another argument goes like this:

Humans are made up of cells, no?
of course they are
And Human's have free will, am I right?
why, yes!
Do cells have free will?
i don't know ... I guess not...
Do two cells?
of course no!
Then where do you draw the line? Some people say that plants think and have enough evidencce to support it. I bet they are looking at you and sighing right now :wink: (that was fun!)

Everyone's Favorite (no pun intended),
Second Socrates

can one cell think? of course not. can two? also not.... can a human think? well, based on this logic probably not. but we know that we do think, how is that possible then? cells and units in general do create systems that are outside of themselves alone. like thinking capacity, part of which is will.

and therein lies the ghost in the machine=thinking

according to the bible, humans have 'free will.'

indeed. but if all you're a good christian your will is constrained by the bible, self-constrained, sure, but i am sure there are times when a man would like to do one thing, but 'conscience' or moral concerns advise him against it. is that free will? dunno.
dys, the thought of that makes me shiver. but it is possible.

dag, But one doesn't have to follow the dictates of the bible; there in lies the catch 22. If you don't, you'll go to hell. If you do, you'll live for eternity in heaven. Quite a choice, don't you think? c.i.