Can Religious Thought and Intellectual Honesty Coexist?

Now, I do understand about the Christians that force it down your throat and I tend to agree with you there (only about that they shouldn't do that), but what about those that don't try to force it?

Phoenix, let me ask you a question. Suppose I told you that I don't believe abortion is wrong ONLY because I am a Christian? I have never believed in it. So, does that make a difference?

So then, are you saying it does not matter why you are against abortion, you just shouldn't try to change the law so they are not legal?

Just a question. Should a person try to stop the other fellow from harming themselves or committing suicide if they are aware of it and have the ability to do so?

Be kind to your fellow human beings, but don't attempt to run their lives according your own personal beliefs.

At what point do we jump in when our own personal beliefs say that this person needs help? What would the majority of people do? I am not using this as an argument against what you believe. I am just trying to rationalize where intervention is ok and where it is not.

Also, djbt and others:

OK, let's say "rational thought" instead of "science." But, remember, that must include the idea that we don't know everything. So... the irony is, if you are attempting to base your life solely on rational thought, you have to leave room for the possibility that, at least, some seemingly irrational aspects of life may turn out to be rational after all.

I did think of something which might be helpful. What we listed the things we believe in. I wonder what that would reveal. I highly suspect there would be a lot of beautiful irrationality involved.

I understand the point that you are making, and indeed it is a serious judgement call. I think that as a compassionate human being, it is incumbent upon us to intervene when we think that a person is attempting to end his life, because of an adverse life event that he is unable to handle, or out of depression.

I would certainly come to the assistance of someone who was in that predicament, and do what I could to turn the situation around. Remember, I am not forcing anyone to do or not do anything. I would use my ability to persuade that person that he needs help, and would offer to assist him in obtaining that help. I might call for assistance from other persons, or mental health agencies, to help me to discourage the person from committing suicide.

Bottom line though, as I have said before, if someone really wants to kill themselves, there is little that anyone can do. It is in those cases where the suicidal gesture is really a cry for help from a distraught individual, where an intervention may literally become the difference between life and death.

I think you may be confusing two meanings of the word 'belief' here: the belief that something is true, and the belief that something is morally right. I do not, and nor do many people, believe in anything that is not at least likely to be true. I do, however, have moral beliefs that could never be called true or untrue, as they concern how things should be, not how things are. Belief in a religion is a belief about how things are, and therefore is within the realm of things that must be at least likely to be true to be worth believing.

Can't it be said that the way I feel about abortion is how you feel here? By my wanting the laws to be against abortion, am I not trying to persuade someone or many someones to not end a life (IMO, a human life?)

I understand where you are going with this. But I don't think that were are comparing equals. I believe that a fetus is not a human life, It is living, but until it had developed to the point where it can live outside of its mother, IMO, it is simply a potential, a part of the host, who is the woman. In the case of early pregnancy, I believe that the rights of the woman outweighs the rights of the fetus.

Phoenix, may I interrupt a moment?

Momma, are you all right? Kristina is wreaking havoc in your neck of the woods.

Letty Wrote:

Quote:

Phoenix, may I interrupt a moment?

Momma, are you all right? Kristina is wreaking havoc in your neck of the woods.

You don't know how many emails and phone calls I have gotten in the past couple of days about this! Yes, I am fine. I am about 300 miles north of New Orleans. We are getting some bad weather, but as of yet, it is too terribly bad. It may get much worse, but it won't be anything like they are getting in the south.

So, if you don't see me on here for a couple of days, we may have lost our electricity or something.

Thanx so much for asking, Letty. That was very thoughtful of you!

Momma Angel

Although there is a continuum, from the devoutly religious, the mildly religious, the agnostic, and the atheist, there appears to be one major difference, and it is a matter of degree, of the way the religious and the non-religious view the world, and his place within it.

To those who adhere to no religion, his "sense of place" is derived from learning about the world, accepting what he finds reasonable, and discarding the rest. It is an ongoing, lifetime process, and reasonable people understand that there are no final answers.

We as humans are constantly evolving, and something that is unknown now, may very well be quite commonly understood tomorrow. If one simply things of what humanity knew of the world just 100 years ago, and what we know today, it is apparent that we are a work-in-progress, ever expanding our knowledge of the world.

IMO, the rational, reasonable person uses his intellect to judge what is true and what is false. That is not to say that he is omnicient; that he does not make mistakes and errors of judgement. What I am saying is that the rational man uses his mind as his guide to understanding his humanity, and his place in the world.

On the other hand, we have the religious amongst us. He looks at the world differently. It is a frightening world, full of a fierce God, who insists on complete obedience, where he is born automatically tainted with sin. He has his holy books, the Bible, the Koran, etc.

When reason cannot offer an explanation, the religious person turns to those books, even though many of the things written there contradict everything that is reasonable and rational. His rationale....................."faith". When there is no answer, he believes that there are things that simply will never be revealed to him, so instead of saying "I don't know", he will say, "I believe because the (insert name of holy book) tells me so.

The interesting thing is that I have found this phenomenon of blind faith in people who are otherwise quite reasonable. But when matters of faith come into play, reason is completely suspended.

Now my question. Can a person who lives his life with faith (which entails suspending his intellect in the service of his God) be intellectually honest? Can religious thought and intellectual honesty co-exist in one human being?