Wich law? Human or God?

@Frank Apisa,

There are many things that cannot be seen but are there. If you don't see the mathematical rules, it's not because they don't exist. If you don't see other worlds, it's not because they don't exist. There is a difference between "not seeing" and "not being".
think friend.

1 Reply

@ghuriani,

If the quran is a supreme being's law then why do you disobey the command of surat9:5?

But when the forbidden 4 months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

1 Reply

@ghuriani,

ghuriani wrote:

There are many things that cannot be seen but are there. If you don't see the mathematical rules, it's not because they don't exist. If you don't see other worlds, it's not because they don't exist. There is a difference between "not seeing" and "not being".
think friend.

I have said nothing about gods "not being." There may be gods...and there may be no gods.

You spoke about certainty.

I asked a question of you, namely: Please provide any evidence that provides CERTAINTY that any gods exist.

I am still waiting for that.

So...please provide any evidence that provides CERTAINTY that any gods exist.

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@ghuriani,

Quote:

Quite simply, by creating laws to fight economic corruption and oppressors

Name one country where this has successfully been put into effect.

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@hightor,

Do not change the topic. You asked how God's law does this, and I answered. Which country implemented it is another matter. You know that in many countries there is no law of God, so expecting success is expecting misplaced.

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@fobvius,

Cutting from a truth always hurts its understanding. Do you accept those other verses that I said or not? Those verses were against lying in elections, in favor of digital currency, etc. Why don't you say anything about these? That verse you wrote is related to the special conditions of international threat. Like any other government that is attacked, it will react.

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@Frank Apisa,

Ok mate, if you are a reader, please check these:
Cottingham, John, 1986, The Philosophical Writing of Descartes, London Cambridge university press.
George. J .D. 1991, Rene Descartes Critical, London and New York, Routledge.
Kant, Immanue, 1933, Gritique of pure Reason, trans: Norman kemp smith, London, Cambridge University.
Ross, G.R. 1967, The Philosophical Works, London Cambridge university of Pescartes.

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@ghuriani,

My point is that even in countries which profess obedience to the "Law of God", people still suffer and there are still corrupt practices. The "Law of God" can be transgressed as easily as the laws of men – with no legal consequences.

In addition, you don't even know what the "Law of God" is. You are merely following the dictates of a particular culture which claims to have access to some revealed "truth" by way of some divine messenger. You have failed to provide the evidence which would make this claim believable.

1 Reply

@ghuriani,

ghuriani wrote:

Ok mate, if you are a reader, please check these:
Cottingham, John, 1986, The Philosophical Writing of Descartes, London Cambridge university press.
George. J .D. 1991, Rene Descartes Critical, London and New York, Routledge.
Kant, Immanue, 1933, Gritique of pure Reason, trans: Norman kemp smith, London, Cambridge University.
Ross, G.R. 1967, The Philosophical Works, London Cambridge university of Pescartes.

YOU were the one who made the "certainty" comment. Now...either offer evidence establishing CERTAINTY that at least one god exists...or have the ethical spine to acknowledge that you cannot.

Frankly, YOU CANNOT, because there is no certainty that a god exists...just as there is no certainty that NO GODS exist.

Stop with the bullshit. Do not compromise your self-respect...or any respect you have from fellow posters here.

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@Frank Apisa,

Did you read the sources? Why are you quick to judge? Ethics is not to speak without research. I think you are done arguing unless you read and then ask questions. You cannot escape from the truth with these journalistic sentences. A world without God is equal to the absence of everyone, even you. I ask you a question: If the water becomes salty, you say that salt must have been added to it because the water itself is not salty. Now we all know that our existence is not our own, otherwise we must have been from the beginning of the world. So, if the existence of creatures is not their own, it must have been given to them by a creator. His name is God. Of course, if you have a problem with the name, use any other name you want. If you really want the truth, I am waiting for you to do two things: 1. Study those sources. 2. Criticize the reason I gave.
If you don't do these two things, I won't argue with you anymore.
Good luck

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@ghuriani,

Well, just admit you don't know. Also, what name did you use a while ago when you posted here?

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@ghuriani,

ghuriani wrote:

Did you read the sources? Why are you quick to judge? Ethics is not to speak without research. I think you are done arguing unless you read and then ask questions. You cannot escape from the truth with these journalistic sentences. A world without God is equal to the absence of everyone, even you. I ask you a question: If the water becomes salty, you say that salt must have been added to it because the water itself is not salty. Now we all know that our existence is not our own, otherwise we must have been from the beginning of the world. So, if the existence of creatures is not their own, it must have been given to them by a creator. His name is God. Of course, if you have a problem with the name, use any other name you want. If you really want the truth, I am waiting for you to do two things: 1. Study those sources. 2. Criticize the reason I gave.
If you don't do these two things, I won't argue with you anymore.
Good luck

No problem.

There is no certainty that there is at least one god...but apparently you are unable to simply acknowledge that.

As I said...no problem. We've had people here who have expressed certainty that there are no gods...and others, like you, who claim certainty that there is at least one.

The one certainty that I know of is...we do not know for certain if there are any gods or not.

Since you seem to be searching for certainty...you ought really to consider that one.

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@hightor,

Basically, the law does not prevent human free will. The law only gives direction. Therefore, if the law is not followed, its effect will not be seen. Breaking God's law has nothing to do with its ineffectiveness. Suppose you set a house rule for your son. If your son violates it, does that mean your law is ineffective? Maybe your son is an outlaw. I also brought you many proofs. The fact that God's law is according to your intellect is the best witness. God's law says don't lie, don't take other people's rights, be loyal, be polite and... Does your mind say anything else? So this harmony between the law of reason and the law of God is the best witness. Think more please

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@glitterbag,

You are new to the discussion. If you look at the previous content, you will understand that I said the reason. The one who has to confess does not know that he is someone else.

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@Frank Apisa,

It is better not to run away from the discussion What do you do to people? Don't you have thoughts and wisdom? I brought you some articles and a witness that the existence of God is certain, but unfortunately you could not say anything. I repeat again. I asked you two things: 1. Study the sources mentioned. 2. Criticism of the definite reason that was given. If you have a scientific article, I am waiting for your answer.

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@Frank Apisa,

Indeed, what is your definitive reason for what you say? If you don't have a definite reason, the same possibility that you may be wrong? Please think more about this answer friend.

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@ghuriani,

Quote:

The fact that God's law is according to your intellect is the best witness.

You have that backwards, "friend". It was our intellect that wrote the script. "God's Law" is the name given to a set of rules devised by humans. "God" only speaks the words put into its mouth by human authors. Culture is the ventriloquist; "God" is the dummy. There's no need to invoke the supernatural. You're overthinking the issue.

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@ghuriani,

ghuriani wrote:

It is better not to run away from the discussion What do you do to people? Don't you have thoughts and wisdom? I brought you some articles and a witness that the existence of God is certain, but unfortunately you could not say anything. I repeat again. I asked you two things: 1. Study the sources mentioned. 2. Criticism of the definite reason that was given. If you have a scientific article, I am waiting for your answer.

You have NOT brought anything to the conversation that confirms the existence of any gods...and the existence of any gods is far from certain. Just as the notion that there are no gods is far from certain.

I am not about to read a bunch of bullshit purporting to establish that gods must exist. I do not waste my time that way. In any case, we are having a discussion in an Internet forum...and YOU should be defending the assertions YOU are making. If you are discussing issues here, I hope you understand that the burden of proof for defending assertions YOU make are on YOU.

I am cutting you some slack right now because it is obvious English is a second language for you. I admire your willingness to debate in a second language, but that does not relieve you from the requirements of debate.

Present a coherent, logical argument for the certainty of the existence of at least one god. If you cannot, you have the ethical obligation to acknowledge that you cannot.

AND YOU CANNOT! Neither can anyone else. On the question, "Is there at least one god...or are there no gods?"...the only reasonable, logical answer is, "I do not know."

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@ghuriani,

ghuriani wrote:

Indeed, what is your definitive reason for what you say? If you don't have a definite reason, the same possibility that you may be wrong? Please think more about this answer friend.

I am not your friend, Ghuriani, I am a fellow participant (an adversary, actually) in an Internet conversation.

YOU are asserting that you KNOW at least one god exists...and you KNOW what "laws" this god demands be followed.

I am asking you to bear the burden of proof for your assertion. (I acknowledge that I doubt you can even come close to doing so, because nobody can.)

But give it a try. We can deal with your attempts.

In any case, it makes no sense to be discussing laws supposedly made by a god that supposedly exists. You should be able to see that.

So...start with that. Make the case, as best you can, that it is certain that a god exists. Then we start work on the laws you are supposing have been made by that god.

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@ghuriani,

One of the reasons I often skip these religion discussions is because so many people get their shorts in a knot trying to force other people to agree with whatever they say. In other words, people start getting unpleasant in many aspects. I've been on this forum since 2002, your notions have been discussed many, many, many times before and it always leads to a big black empty hole of nothingness. I appreciate your patience however, trying to get this started again.

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