1
   

Can a Christian Lose Their Salvation?

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 01:58 pm
ebrown Wrote:

Quote:
Also, Momma,

I understand what Chai Tea is saying. I made a real decision to "leave" Christianity after spending many years "full commited to Christ".

It seems like you and baddog are making judgements about those of us who have made the decision to leave Christianity. Talking judgementally among yourselves about my decision while I am right here may be considered in poor taste.

For the record, baddog, I have no fearful expectation of the raging fire that will consume the enemies of God, nor has my life been particularly unlivable since I left.


ebrown, I meant no disrespect. As you can see in most of my posts, I address the poster personally. I did not intend for it to seem as if I were talking like you weren't here. I will watch that in the future.

I make no judgements on you or anyone else. I simply state what I believe God has set forth. Now, true, there are many interpretations of this in every religion. That is why it is so important for us all to respect each other's right to believe as we do. I find it no more honorable for a Christian to resort to namecalling or belittleing someone than I do anyone of any religion or non-religion.

And your decision concerning your faith is between you and God, ebrown. I do not know all of your reasons for it. I do not know your heart. I only asked a question because not being in that particular situation, I have a hard time understanding it. I do appreciate it when everyone in the threads are honest with their feelings.

And, I have to say, we are in agreement with that "I changed. God didn't comment." I think that's an excellent way to explain it.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 01:59 pm
Quote:
Sarcasm = pain in disguise
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:03 pm
John 10:22-30
.
22. Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23. and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade.
24. The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25. Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in My Father's name speak for Me,
26. but you do not believe because you are not My sheep.
27. My sheep (believers, Christians) listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.
28. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand.
29. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30. I and the Father are One."



So based on what Jesus said
"no one can snatch them out of My hand
"no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand"
Blessed Assurance
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:15 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
And why is that Chai Tea? Because I find making jokes about God and an individual's personal beliefs inappropriate? Let's see, if you use certain words in regards to a person of a different color or race, you can be sued for it. I thought no one was to be discriminated against because of their race, creed, nationality, or religion?

What makes it ok for some to do it and some not? You have every right to your opinion and I respect that right. I just don't feel ANYONE has the right to be abusive IN ANY WAY to ANYONE for expressing their views.

And no, not the Salvation Police by any means whatsoever. I have no problem with someone saying they do not believe what I believe, think what I think, etc., no problem whatsoever with that. I just feel everyone can express how they feel in a courteous manner.

Once courtesy is abandoned there seems to be no real discussion or exchange of views.

And no, not an angel by any means! LOL. I use the same userid for everything so I don't get confused! Laughing


Wow, am I a minder reader or what! Isn't this the response I predicted you'd give?
I was not making jokes about God. Lighten up. I meant every word I say, I choose not to temper them with all this PC crap. God knows what I think, and he definately knows I was not joking.

Oh and here we go AGAIN, with the "You have a right....blah, blah, blah, and I respect that.....blah, blah blah....." You know, that's getting really old......

and what, you're the Courtesy Police too?
What, are you Amy Vanderbilt, Miss Manners and Ann Landers all rolled into one?
Too many people use the word courtesy to stop people from saying what's really on their minds.
once courstesy is abandoned, there are be no exchange of idea.....my foot!
It's all this (false) courtesy that keeps people from speaking their minds.
How can someone convey an idea when your limited to only saying something that will offend no one?
Be offended, I don't care.


I'm not discourtesous, just tired of other agenda behind people words, as in "you have every right to believe what you want (even though you're going to hell"

I stand by my words. It might be refreshing if you were to come down off your ivory tower once in a while and let your hair down and just blow off some steam. I'm not going to tell you that you are so full of yourself, but you sure give the appearance that you are.

It's not like we're all a bunch of children going to finishing school, and discourteous or not, it's sure a lot better than all the subtext.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:19 pm
husker wrote:
John 10:22-30
.
22. Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23. and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade.
24. The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25. Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in My Father's name speak for Me,
26. but you do not believe because you are not My sheep.
27. My sheep (believers, Christians) listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.
28. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand.
29. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30. I and the Father are One."



So based on what Jesus said
"no one can snatch them out of My hand
"no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand"
Blessed Assurance


I wasn't snatched-- I chose to leave.

What does this say about us sheep who leave because they decide that things are better outside the flock?
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:25 pm
you got lost and will be may be found

I guess if you find it's real you might get achance at the mercy seat for the final time
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:30 pm
Gee whiz Husker, how very Christian (and supercillious) of you. If I didn't like you I might get really pissed by that remark!
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:39 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Gee whiz Husker, how very Christian (and supercillious) of you. If I didn't like you I might get really pissed by that remark!


not sure I actually know what this word supercillious means

but let me say i meant no malicious intent or meaning - so maybe I didn't explain well
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:40 pm
Chai Tea Wrote:

Quote:
Wow, am I a minder reader or what! Isn't this the response I predicted you'd give?

I was not making jokes about God. Lighten up. I meant every word I say, I choose not to temper them with all this PC crap. God knows what I think, and he definately knows I was not joking.

Oh and here we go AGAIN, with the "You have a right....blah, blah, blah, and I respect that.....blah, blah blah....." You know, that's getting really old......
and what, you're the Courtesy Police too?

What, are you Amy Vanderbilt, Miss Manners and Ann Landers all rolled into one?
Too many people use the word courtesy to stop people from saying what's really on their minds.
once courstesy is abandoned, there are be no exchange of idea.....my foot!
It's all this (false) courtesy that keeps people from speaking their minds.
How can someone convey an idea when your limited to only saying something that will offend no one?
Be offended, I don't care.

I'm not discourtesous, just tired of other agenda behind people words, as in "you have every right to believe what you want (even though you're going to hell"

I stand by my words. It might be refreshing if you were to come down off your ivory tower once in a while and let your hair down and just blow off some steam. I'm not going to tell you that you are so full of yourself, but you sure give the appearance that you are.

It's not like we're all a bunch of children going to finishing school, and discourteous or not, it's sure a lot better than all the subtext.


Well, if I am being predictable then I am, at the very least, being consistent in my posts about what I believe and how I portray that belief.

I did not say that YOU specifically were making jokes. I made a general statement about some things being said. If they did not apply to you, then they did not apply to you, and you should not take offense.

Amy Vanderbilt? Miss Manners? Laughing Hardly. I just know how I like to be treated and stated such. My courtesy is not false. I say what I mean and what I feel. Don't bother reading any subtext into what I post. I say what I mean.

And don't you think I do get angry and offended also? I am human. I just happen to handle it differently than some. What is wrong with that? I choose not to be what I feel is disrespectful to someone and I am on an "ivory tower?" Is this what we teach children? Don't we teach children to be respectful? It's the same concept.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:50 pm
Quote:
It seems like you and baddog are making judgements about those of us who have made the decision to leave Christianity. Talking judgementally among yourselves about my decision while I am right here may be considered in poor taste.

For the record, baddog, I have no fearful expectation of the raging fire that will consume the enemies of God, nor has my life been particularly unlivable
since I left.


Huh? Until I read this, I'm sorry, but I didn't even know that you existed! Therefore I certainly didn't make any judgments about you or anyone else on here. I asked a very basic question about Christianity and offered a couple of scriptures that appear to agree with one answer to my question. husker has offered scripture that appears to support another side to my question. Where exactly do you feel I placed judgment on you?

BD1
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 02:59 pm
Supercilious-Feeling or showing haughty disdain.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 03:02 pm
husker:

Quote:
...27. My sheep (believers, Christians) listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.
28. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand.
29. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30. I and the Father are One."


Thanks for the reference. These scriptures and the ones I posted seem to contradict each other, don't they? This is a subject that I've bounced back & forth on for a while now.

BD1
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 03:15 pm
baddog1 wrote:
The argument for this question of losing salvation has long been; "was the person actually saved to begin with"?

However, the following scriptures seem to answer this.

Hebrews 10:26, 27
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Any thoughts?



this scripture means

This passage is not speaking of a believer who falls away, but rather someone who may claim to be a believer, but truly is not.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 03:29 pm
Husker,

That doesn't make any sense in my case. I was a believer who "fell away" (walked away is a better description).

I accepted Jesus as my personal savior. I was baptised. I made every life decision based on the Word and on what I believed God wanted. I had a relationship with God that I nurtured with daily prayer and Bible study. I prayed with faith and was convinced that God answered my prayers. I spent time fulfilling the Great Comission.

In short, my experience was like that of so many Christians. I had faith that I was "saved" and I lived that way for years.

If you are questioning my sincerity than being a Christian is very insecure after all, since it means that the most faithful Christian (and I was very faithful) might just be decieved.

I am proof that a once faithful Christian can choose to leave God.

I guess whether God will pull me up to heaven anyway is another question.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 03:34 pm
I humbly believe you are currently being deceived and pulled from the hands that will lift you in the end.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 03:35 pm
Quote:
Can a Christian Lose Their Salvation?


If they do, and i can get it back for them, is there a finder's fee worth having?
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 03:36 pm
Also I'm unaware if you've posted it before but would like to read about that revelation.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 04:02 pm
ebrown_p:

I agree with husker in your situation as it's been described. Since you've "known" Jesus at a younger age and for whatever reason are turning your back on him now, it is my belief (and hope) that you will find your way back one day. If/when you do, he will no doubt welcome you back with open arms.

BD1
0 Replies
 
Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 08:49 pm
Setanta wrote:
Quote:
Can a Christian Lose Their Salvation?


If they do, and i can get it back for them, is there a finder's fee worth having?

Unfortunately, 'saved' is primarily a protestant concept, so bread and grape juice, er, the body and blood of Christ, are probably the best you can hope for. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 08:52 pm
Mills75 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Quote:
Can a Christian Lose Their Salvation?


If they do, and i can get it back for them, is there a finder's fee worth having?

Unfortunately, 'saved' is primarily a protestant concept, so bread and grape juice, er, the body and blood of Christ, are probably the best you can hope for. Rolling Eyes


And probably Wonder bread and Welches grape juice at that.
0 Replies
 
 

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