I think stress is also a major factor.
Yes I agree. Of course smoking isn't the only factor. We have a little booklet about diet as well. And predispositional factors figure in too. No more half loaves of bread with a tablespoon of butter and tomatoes with tons of salt either. However, you all know Bernie........how many of you think he can smoke an occasional cigarette? Enough said.
Anyway Bernie wants to do what is best for his health and so do I. And what he does is up to him.......not any of us. The beneficial effects of smoking tobacco can be obtained from any number of better medications without such horrendious side effects. It's ironic that so many of you (and especially including Bernie) are so pro-science, except when it affects something you want to do. Anti-intellectualism at it's height. Now I'm all grumpy. But I will say that none of you were here on Saturday morning helplessly waiting for an ambulance while he was clearly dying if he didn't get some very expensive help immediately......not knowing if they would make it soon enough........not knowing that if they did make it, it would do any good anyway. So there! You bad boys!
But I don't want to debate the pros and cons of tobacco right now. Healthy living is all I want and if I don't get it.......well, let's just say that about these things, I'm not a patient person.
I just talked to Bernie and he said he hasn't heard from the doc yet about when he'll go in for his thing today. I'm going to go there now and wait with him. He's not looking forward to it.
Let's all be glad he's alive for now.
mumble mumble mumble...steam flowing from my ears........science is science folks whether you like what it tells you or not. I'll go with the odds in my favor. You're giving me the same arguments Bush gives about the environment. grumble
There, there - have a wee dram and settle down.
((((((((((((((((((Lola))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((Bernie))))))))))))))
And a whiskery kiss - they's predisposed to fight, yer know, as the sparks fly upwards....
Lola's a born-again non-smoker now? U-oh!
My fingers are crossed for Bernie's operation. All the best!
Big Big Big Hug winging right over to Lola and a firm embrace to the Bernie!
You guys just made me remember my friend was telling me, he's on the heart transplant listing and he's tested monthly for a number of things one is smoke from tobacco, even 2nd hand smoke can get him disqualified from the program so he must be careful of his surroundings.
Thanks to all for the hugs and good wishes. I'll deliver them. You're right Deb.......I'll calm down. But I'm afraid I'm predisposed that way myself, as we all know already.
And Thomas, I'm not a born again non smoker. I've never smoked. Not because of some virtue on my part, it just never happened. You all know I'm good to go on many things in reasonable enough moderation. But unhealthy living, and I include smoking, is not something I want to do......I'm just not masochistic enough for that.
Off to the hospital now.........
I love you all anyway.
Lola wrote:And Thomas, I'm not a born again non smoker. I've never smoked.
You haven't? Okay, my mistake, sorry. Fingers still crossed, love you both. I'm eager to hear how it went.
Sending healing thoughts up to Manhattan this morning. I hope the wait is short, the procedure painless, and the results speedy and encouraging.
farmerman wrote:So, Frank, you feel that blatham should just keep smoking?
Thats quite a crock.
Well there is a "crock" here somewhere...but I suspect it is in your post not mine.
You must have missed the last sentence in my post, or you would not have asked this question...nor considered my post to be a crock.
Quote:It probably is best he give up smoking...but to suppose his smoking is the major culprit is naive.
Frank
Frank, dear, I know you like Bernie and Lola and that you wouldn't harm them for all the cigarettes in the world. I also know that you are very smart but I also know you live to argue and debate, but this was not the place and time to indulge such sport. Frank, you have foot in mouth at this time, in this place, with people whom you like and who like you. Dear one, I think your typing fingers got going before your considerable brain engaged. I recognize the behavior because I've been guilty of the same thing. I always regret it after it's too late to take back the words.
Every body should quit smoking while it still can make a difference in the length and quality of their lives and their loved ones.
BBB
Lola--
Your Beloved is a complex man with some complex illusions. He's heard the Grim Reaper whetting his scythe and the next steps are up to him.
Frank--
Quote:so this is not about an ox and grinding
Mills grind--and all is grist for the mill. Oxen gore--as in blood, gore and liability insurance.
Frank,You often like to have it both ways (thats why I suppose you declare yourself an agnostic). Now youre just trying to backpedal. Of course I saw your last sentence, but it was almost "fact free" . Lola never said that smoking was THE ONLY FACTOR, and we have been listing other ones. But the nature of risk factors is just that , one of a bunch of interacting factors that, by themselves arent the single cause but a mere brick in the wall.To downplay any one (as you did for smoking) , especially one that has been studied for a long time and has conclusive evidence that smoking results in an increase in the "stickiness" of blood platelets which, in the right time, under the right circumstances, may aid in causing a heart attack, now THAT's naive.
YEH, Ill shut up too. Sorry BBB. This is a thread of concern for blatham, . Its kinda weird that we can start fights over a weather report .
Ill admit, I started it by jabbing at Frank, who, by past performance, is like an ole bass who cannot resist a specific red lure.
Frank, kissy kissy
Phoenix
Phoenix32890 wrote:I think that Bernie will get a kick out of this thread, and how it's developing! 
I don't know about that. I can hear him saying, "Man, they can get an argument going in the damndest places."
BBB
Well, I'm Irish, and of course nothing is more entertaining to the Irish than a good fight....BUT...
Right now, let's lay aside our differences and help Bernie & Lola get through this.
Lola, I do know how you felt that morning waiting for the ambulance. About 11 years ago, my hubby went in for what was supposed to be a quick 45-minute outpatient procedure to remove a cyst in his neck. Two and a half hours later, a team of doctors came out and gave me completely unexpected bad news. (I was 8 months pregnant at the time, and was there alone. I got to practice my Lamaze breathing a lot.) It was Stage 3 cancer, and he would have a 50-50 chance of living for three years. They would never come out and say that smoking caused it, but I hounded them until they admitted they never see this form of cancer in non-smokers. Enough said. Following a very risky, disfiguring surgery that would result in chronic pain (which he now lives with) they told him that smoking was no longer a risk "factor" for him, it would mean almost certain death.
He stopped smoking as soon as he heard the diagnosis. He was 40 and otherwise quite healthy at the time. He did everything the doctors told him to do, including changing his diet, beginning exercise, and going through a tough course of radiation therapy and successive surgeries.
And he is still here, enjoying life with his family. If I ever find a cigarette anywhere around here, though, I may kill him myself. I just couldn't handle it. And he knows it.
So, go ahead and threaten Bernie. It might just be the wake-up call he needs.
BBB
Eva wrote:Well, I'm Irish, and of course nothing is more entertaining to the Irish than a good fight....BUT...
Right now, let's lay aside our differences and help Bernie & Lola get through this.
Lola, I do know how you felt that morning waiting for the ambulance. About 11 years ago, my hubby went in for what was supposed to be a quick 45-minute outpatient procedure to remove a cyst in his neck. Two and a half hours later, a team of doctors came out and gave me completely unexpected bad news. (I was 8 months pregnant at the time, and was there alone. I got to practice my Lamaze breathing a lot.) It was Stage 3 cancer, and he would have a 50-50 chance of living for three years. They would never come out and say that smoking caused it, but I hounded them until they admitted they never see this form of cancer in non-smokers. Enough said. Following a very risky, disfiguring surgery that would result in chronic pain (which he now lives with) they told him that smoking was no longer a risk "factor" for him, it would mean almost certain death.
He stopped smoking as soon as he heard the diagnosis. He was 40 and otherwise quite healthy at the time. He did everything the doctors told him to do, including changing his diet, beginning exercise, and going through a tough course of radiation therapy and successive surgeries.
And he is still here, enjoying life with his family. If I ever find a cigarette anywhere around here, though, I may kill him myself. I just couldn't handle it. And he knows it.
So, go ahead and threaten Bernie. It might just be the wake-up call he needs.
Eva told her story to Dys, Diane and me during breakfast before they left Albuquerque for their Colorado vacation cabin. As she was talking, I looked across the table at her husband and son. Her husband, a handsome man, was smiling at their beautiful and charming son. I thought to myself what they would have missed if luck and medical skill had not been with them and if they had not listed to the doctors. They did, and we got to enjoy the pleasure of their company and friendship.
BBB
Thank you, BBB. From the bottom of my heart.
However, I don't want to hijack this thread about Bernie. I just want Lola to know that somebody else has been there. And made it through...by following doctors' orders and quitting smoking.
Eva
Eva wrote:Thank you, BBB. From the bottom of my heart.
However, I don't want to hijack this thread about Bernie. I just want Lola to know that somebody else has been there. And made it through...by following doctors' orders and quitting smoking.
Just wanted you to know how much I admire you and your family and how you handled the great issues in your lives.
BBB
