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my picture

 
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 03:38 am
stuh505 wrote:
Positive and negative space is really a watercolor concept I think, because with waterolors you have to paint darker colors over lighter colors and you can't do it the other way around. So, there are now 2 ways to make a shape -- you could paint inside the shape, or you could paint around the outline of the shape (leaving the shape a lighter color). That's negative painting. Negative space is the space that you leave blank, or, more blank than the rest. You can extend the concept to other mediums but I still think it makes the most sense with watercolors.

I disagree with Vivian that you won't improve without drawing from life. That's simply nonsense, I'm sure you've already noticed improvements from copying 2D pictures. Any artisit will continue to improve drawing only from 2D, but the improvement function is diminishing over time. Any artist will also continue to improve from drawing from 3D, but the improvement function is much less steep in the beginning...I think that you will improve more from 2D at this point, but some time there will come a point when these lines intersect and beyond that point drawing from 3D will give you a faster rate of improvement.


your copying skills will improve stuh but not your drawing skills. you are working second hand from someone else's vision. Drawing is about a lot more than mere copying. It's about resolving problems for yourself and not simply mimicking another's solution.

Negative spaces are the quiet bits around objects - the shapes they make between objects and the edges of the piece are important, it isn't a watercolour issue only, it applies to any art or even photography - even to the way print is laid out on a page.

Definitely read some books from the library, search the web, there are some good sites out there

if you visit this link you can sign up for a free newsletter of tips from Marion Boddy Evans - some of her stuff would be useful for your link
0 Replies
 
bloggo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 10:21 am
Thanks guys
That's very helpful, I'll keep drawing, using the advice everyone has given me..

Although, just yesterday I attempted at a couple of new drawings..and oh my god..
There was NO progress.. just a slight degression I believe? 'Twas quite the discouragement.
Maybe I'll post them when I get a chance, and hopefully somebody can enlighten me as to why they look so awful.



Thanks again
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 12:14 pm
Bloggo, I doubt that one can measure "progress" from drawing to drawing (think, perhaps, in terms of months). Vivien's points are well taken. Copying photos is not as good as drawing from actual life; the worst is where one sees in matchbook advertisements the trick of "testing" your drawing ability by copying a simple drawing. ANYONE can do that, and thereby pass the test and signing up for courses in "art." Passing merely qualifies you to give them your money.
By the way, Stuh, there is a significant distinction between negative spaces and negative shapes.
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 03:15 pm
Bloggo JLN is right - don't expect to improve drawing to drawing, Sometimes you'll reach a plateau and though a lot of knowledge seems to be going into your head it just won't come out in the work - then all of a sudden it comes together and your work improves in a giant step ......then another plateau ....

- that's what I find anyway Very Happy


practice is the essential thing, there's no progress without that
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bluebaby
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 02:52 pm
honestly all your works r great ,i enjoyed all of them
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 03:06 pm
I loved 'em.

Keep at it.

Enjoy!
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bloggo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 09:08 pm
....
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:19 pm
I don't think in terms of right or wrong, only of interesting and uninteresting. This is interesting.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:27 pm
I think they're all wonderful, so keep drawing ;-)
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:39 pm
I learned to draw, years ago, from a class based on Nicolaides, The Natural Way to Draw, and his book would run you around the world for exercises to learn his way of doing things.

The whole bit of drawing is ... what to do,
and then to get good at what ever it is to do

- copy by looking and following outlines, look at a person or an object for a short time and draw quick, as a gesture... learn to make shapes with lines or shading or absence of those...

Well, the first part of all classes is teaching hand eye coordination. Some of us need practice at that lifelong. Some don't have to think about it from the first day on, but end up being illustrators.

My news is, both of those people can be artists, in my opinion, and certainly have been. Now, there's a thesis...


I'll still recommend Nicolaides book, available for low money online, but I'd not religiously follow the number of times to do his exercises. Heh.

But... I think the ideas are a good start.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:43 pm
Osso, I agree about the value of Nicolaides' exercises. I did them for about a year and a half, every night drawing very quickly some scene of the day. And it was fun as well.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:16 am
The thing about Nicolaides, was -- not a day or two, but many... honing the eye, hand eye coordination and natural gesture. Many efforts, and then many more.

So - relevant to this set of Bloggo's drawings and topic... actually I was impressed with the naturalistic drawing strokes. But----
more looking and drawing to go...
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:17 am
I have to add that I never did the whole Nicolaides thing, pffui.

But, working my way through as far as I got was really useful.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 10:15 am
Same here.
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 02:44 pm
that last one was interesting

I've never heard of Nicolaides. Perhaps never published here?
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 03:41 pm
Kimon Nicolaides
The Natural Way to Draw
Houghton Mifflin Company Boston
copyright 1941, ISBN 0-395-08048-7
copyright 1969, ISBN 0-395-53007-5 (paperback)
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 04:44 pm
available usually at amazon.com, very inexpensive if you don't mind used...
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 04:53 pm
Amazon link for the hardback



(that's a US amazon link..)
0 Replies
 
bloggo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 05:42 pm
Well I guess I'll have to check out this Nicolaides fellow..
it seems he has quite the following.
Thanks for the idea
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 05:54 pm
I still have my Nicolaides book. I haven't done free drawing in a long time - bloggo, you don't know, I'm sure, that I do landscape architecture for a career, and there are a lot of drawing hours and design hours in any given work week. While I have waves of wanting to just draw on my off time, mostly I buy small sketch pads and don't.

But recently I am in transition, and am apt to pick it up again. Truth and economy, I am more sophisticated now about those than when I started to learn to draw. We'll see, I'd be interested in what develops. I've probably lost a lot of whatever drawing touch I had through years of structural detail drawings, though there is some primitive drawing always underlying my paintings. Pleasant to think of doing it again, and I'll likely drag forward my Nicolaides book once I unpack from my move.
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