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Selling a New Generation on Guns

 
 
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2022 03:40 pm
Selling a New Generation on Guns


By Mike McIntire


Published Jan. 26, 2013


Quote:
Threatened by long-term declining participation in shooting sports, the firearms industry has poured millions of dollars into a broad campaign to ensure its future by getting guns into the hands of more, and younger, children.

The industry’s strategies include giving firearms, ammunition and cash to youth groups; weakening state restrictions on hunting by young children; marketing an affordable military-style rifle for “junior shooters” and sponsoring semiautomatic-handgun competitions for youths; and developing a target-shooting video game that promotes brand-name weapons, with links to the Web sites of their makers.

The pages of Junior Shooters, an industry-supported magazine that seeks to get children involved in the recreational use of firearms, once featured a smiling 15-year-old girl clutching a semiautomatic rifle. At the end of an accompanying article that extolled target shooting with a Bushmaster AR-15 — an advertisement elsewhere in the magazine directed readers to a coupon for buying one — the author encouraged youngsters to share the article with a parent.

“Who knows?” it said. “Maybe you’ll find a Bushmaster AR-15 under your tree some frosty Christmas morning!”

The industry’s youth-marketing effort is backed by extensive social research and is carried out by an array of nonprofit groups financed by the gun industry, an examination by The New York Times found. The campaign picked up steam about five years ago with the completion of a major study that urged a stronger emphasis on the “recruitment and retention” of new hunters and target shooters.

The overall objective was summed up in another study, commissioned last year by the shooting sports industry, that suggested encouraging children experienced in firearms to recruit other young people. The report, which focused on children ages 8 to 17, said these “peer ambassadors” should help introduce wary youngsters to guns slowly, perhaps through paintball, archery or some other less intimidating activity.

“The point should be to get newcomers started shooting something, with the natural next step being a move toward actual firearms,” said the report, which was prepared for the National Shooting Sports Foundation and the Hunting Heritage Trust.

Firearms manufacturers and their two primary surrogates, the National Rifle Association of America and the National Shooting Sports Foundation, have long been associated with high-profile battles to fend off efforts at gun control and to widen access to firearms. The public debate over the mass shootings in Newtown, Conn., and elsewhere has focused largely on the availability of guns, along with mental illness and the influence of violent video games.

Little attention has been paid, though, to the industry’s youth-marketing initiatives. They stir passionate views, with proponents arguing that introducing children to guns can provide a safe and healthy pastime, and critics countering that it fosters a corrosive gun culture and is potentially dangerous.

The N.R.A. has for decades given grants for youth shooting programs, mostly to Boy Scout councils and 4-H groups, which traditionally involved single-shot rimfire rifles, BB guns and archery. Its $21 million in total grants in 2010 was nearly double what it gave out five years earlier.

Newer initiatives by other organizations go further, seeking to introduce children to high-powered rifles and handguns while invoking the same rationale of those older, more traditional programs: that firearms can teach “life skills” like responsibility, ethics and citizenship. And the gun industry points to injury statistics that it says show a greater likelihood of getting hurt cheerleading or playing softball than using firearms for fun and sport.

Still, some experts in child psychiatry say that encouraging youthful exposure to guns, even in a structured setting with an emphasis on safety, is asking for trouble. Dr. Jess P. Shatkin, the director of undergraduate studies in child and adolescent mental health at New York University, said that young people are naturally impulsive and that their brains “are engineered to take risks,” making them ill suited for handling guns.

“There are lots of ways to teach responsibility to a kid,” Dr. Shatkin said. “You don’t need a gun to do it.”

Steve Sanetti, the president of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, said it was better to instruct children in the safe use of a firearm through hunting and target shooting, and engage them in positive ways with the heritage of guns in America. His industry is well positioned for the task, he said, but faces an unusual challenge: introducing minors to activities that involve products they cannot legally buy and that require a high level of maturity.

Ultimately, Mr. Sanetti said, it should be left to parents, not the government, to decide if and when to introduce their children to shooting and what sort of firearms to use.

“It’s a very significant decision,” he said, “and it involves the personal responsibility of the parent and personal responsibility of the child.”

Trying to Reverse a Trend

The shooting sports foundation, the tax-exempt trade association for the gun industry, is a driving force behind many of the newest youth initiatives. Its national headquarters is in Newtown, just a few miles from Sandy Hook Elementary School, where Adam Lanza, 20, used his mother’s Bushmaster AR-15 to kill 20 children and 6 adults last month.

The foundation’s $26 million budget is financed mostly by gun companies, associated businesses and the foundation’s SHOT Show, the industry’s annual trade show, according to its latest tax return.

Although shooting sports and gun sales have enjoyed a rebound recently, the long-term demographics are not favorable, as urbanization, the growth of indoor pursuits like video games and changing cultural mores erode consumer interest. Licensed hunters fell from 7 percent of the population in 1975 to fewer than 5 percent in 2005, according to federal data. Galvanized by the declining share, the industry redoubled its efforts to reverse the trend about five years ago.

The focus on young people has been accompanied by foundation-sponsored research examining popular attitudes toward hunting and shooting. Some of the studies used focus groups and telephone surveys of teenagers to explore their feelings about guns and people who use them, and offered strategies for generating a greater acceptance of firearms.

The Times reviewed more than a thousand pages of these studies, obtained from gun industry Web sites and online archives, some of them produced as recently as last year. Most were prepared by consultants retained by the foundation, and at least one was financed with a grant from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.

In an interview, Mr. Sanetti said the youth-centered research was driven by the inevitable “tension” the industry faces, given that no one under 18 can buy a rifle or a shotgun from a licensed dealer or even possess a handgun under most circumstances. That means looking for creative and appropriate ways to introduce children to shooting sports.

“There’s nothing alarmist or sinister about it,” Mr. Sanetti said. “It’s realistic.”

Pointing to the need to “start them young,” one study concluded that “stakeholders such as managers and manufacturers should target programs toward youth 12 years old and younger.”

“This is the time that youth are being targeted with competing activities,” it said. “It is important to consider more hunting and target-shooting recruitment programs aimed at middle school level, or earlier.”

Aware that introducing firearms to young children could meet with resistance, several studies suggested methods for smoothing the way for target-shooting programs in schools. One cautioned, “When approaching school systems, it is important to frame the shooting sports only as a mechanism to teach other life skills, rather than an end to itself.”

In another report, the authors warned against using human silhouettes for targets when trying to recruit new shooters and encouraged using words and phrases like “sharing the experience,” “family” and “fun.” They also said children should be enlisted to prod parents to let them join shooting activities: “Such a program could be called ‘Take Me Hunting’ or ‘Take Me Shooting.’ ”

The industry recognized that state laws limiting hunting by children could pose a problem, according to a “Youth Hunting Report” prepared by the shooting sports foundation and two other groups. Declaring that “the need for aggressive recruitment is urgent,” the report said a primary objective should be to “eliminate or reduce age minimums.” Still another study recommended allowing children to get a provisional license to hunt with an adult, “perhaps even before requiring them to take hunter safety courses.”

The effort has succeeded in a number of states, including Wisconsin, which in 2009 lowered the minimum hunting age to 10 from 12, and Michigan, where in 2011 the age minimum for hunting small game was eliminated for children accompanied by an adult mentor. The foundation cited statistics suggesting that youth involvement in hunting, as well as target shooting, had picked up in recent years amid the renewed focus on recruitment.

Gun companies have spent millions of dollars to put their recruitment strategies into action, either directly or through the shooting sports foundation and other organizations. The support takes many forms.

The Scholastic Steel Challenge, started in 2009, introduces children as young as 12 to competitive handgun shooting using steel targets. Its “platinum” sponsors include the shooting sports foundation, Smith & Wesson and Glock, which donated 60 9-millimeter semiautomatic pistols, according to the group’s Web site.

The site features a quote from a gun company executive praising the youth initiative and saying that “anyone in the firearms industry that overlooks its potential is missing the boat.”

Larry Potterfield, the founder of MidwayUSA, one of the nation’s largest sellers of shooting supplies and a major sponsor of the Scholastic Steel Challenge, said he did not fire a handgun until he was 21, adding that they “are the most difficult guns to learn to shoot well.” But, he said, he sees nothing wrong with children using them.

“Kids need arm strength and good patience to learn to shoot a handgun well,” he said in an e-mail, “and I would think that would come in the 12-14 age group for most kids.”

Another organization, the nonprofit Youth Shooting Sports Alliance, which was created in 2007, has received close to $1 million in cash, guns and equipment from the shooting sports foundation and firearms-related companies, including ATK, Winchester and Sturm, Ruger & Company, its tax returns show. In 2011, the alliance awarded 58 grants. A typical grant: 23 rifles, 4 shotguns, 16 cases of ammunition and other materials, which went to a Michigan youth camp.

The foundation and gun companies also support Junior Shooters magazine, which is based in Idaho and was started in 2007. The publication is filled with catchy advertisements and articles about things like zombie targets, pink guns and, under the heading “Kids Gear,” tactical rifle components with military-style features like pistol grips and collapsible stocks.

Gun companies often send new models to the magazine for children to try out with adult supervision. Shortly after Sturm, Ruger announced in 2009 a new, lightweight semiautomatic rifle that had the “look and feel” of an AR-15 but used less expensive .22-caliber cartridges, Junior Shooters received one for review. The magazine had three boys ages 14 to 17 fire it and wrote that they “had an absolute ball!”

Junior Shooters’ editor, Andy Fink, acknowledged in an editorial that some of his magazine’s content stirred controversy.

“I have heard people say, even shooters that participate in some of the shotgun shooting sports, such things as, ‘Why do you need a semiautomatic gun for hunting?’ ” he wrote. But if the industry is to survive, he said, gun enthusiasts must embrace all youth shooting activities, including ones “using semiautomatic firearms with magazines holding 30-100 rounds.”

In an interview, Mr. Fink elaborated. Semiautomatic firearms are actually not weapons, he said, unless someone chooses to hurt another person with them, and their image has been unfairly tainted by the news media. There is no legitimate reason children should not learn to safely use an AR-15 for recreation, he said.

“They’re a tool, not any different than a car or a baseball bat,” Mr. Fink said. “It’s no different than a junior shooting a .22 or a shotgun. The difference is in the perception of the viewer.”

The Weapon of Choice

The AR-15, the civilian version of the military’s M-16 and M-4, has been aggressively marketed as a cool and powerful step up from more traditional target and hunting rifles. But its appearance in mass shootings — in addition to Newtown, the gun was also used last year in the movie theater massacre in Aurora, Colo., and the attack on firefighters in Webster, N.Y. — has prompted calls for tighter restrictions. The AR-15 is among the guns included in a proposed ban on a range of semiautomatic weapons that was introduced in the Senate last week.

Given the gun’s commercial popularity, it is perhaps unsurprising that AR-15-style firearms have worked their way into youth shooting programs. At a “Guns ’n Grillin” weekend last fall, teenagers at a Boy Scout council in Virginia got to shoot AR-15s. They are used in youth competitions held each year at a National Guard camp in Ohio, and in “junior clinics” taught by Army or Marine marksmanship instructors, some of them sponsored by gun companies or organizations they support.

ArmaLite, a successor company to the one that developed the AR-15, is offering a similar rifle, the AR-10, for the grand prize in a raffle benefiting the Illinois State Rifle Association’s “junior high-power” team, which uses AR-15s in its competitions. Bushmaster has offered on its Web site a coupon worth $350 off the price of an AR-15 “to support and encourage junior shooters.”

Military-style firearms are prevalent in a target-shooting video game and mobile app called Point of Impact, which was sponsored by the shooting sports foundation and Guns & Ammo magazine. The game — rated for ages 9 and up in the iTunes store — allows players to shoot brand-name AR-15 rifles and semiautomatic handguns at inanimate targets, and it provides links to gun makers’ Web sites as well as to the foundation’s “First Shots” program, intended to recruit new shooters.

Upon the game’s release in January 2011, foundation executives said in a news release that it was one of the industry’s “most unique marketing tools directed at a younger audience.” Mr. Sanetti of the shooting sports foundation said sponsorship of the game was an experiment intended to deliver safety tips to players, while potentially generating interest in real-life sports.

The confluence of high-powered weaponry and youth shooting programs does not sit well even with some proponents of those programs. Stephan Carlson, a University of Minnesota environmental science professor whose research on the positive effects of learning hunting and outdoor skills in 4-H classes has been cited by the gun industry, said he “wouldn’t necessarily go along” with introducing children to more powerful firearms that added nothing useful to their experience.

“I see why the industry would be pushing it, but I don’t see the value in it,” Mr. Carlson said. “I guess it goes back to the skill base we’re trying to instill in the kids. What are we preparing them for?”

For Mr. Potterfield of MidwayUSA, who said his own children started shooting “boys’ rifles” at age 4, getting young people engaged with firearms — provided they have the maturity and the physical ability to handle them — strengthens an endangered American tradition.

Mr. Potterfield and his wife, Brenda, have donated more than $5 million for youth shooting programs in recent years, a campaign that he said was motivated by philanthropy, not “return on investment.”

“Our gifting is pure benevolence,” he said. “We grew up and live in rural America and have owned guns, hunted and fished all of our lives. This is our community, and we hope to preserve it for future generations.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/us/selling-a-new-generation-on-guns.html
 
jespah
 
  4  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2022 03:52 pm
@Real Music,
This is Joe Camel all over again, and really should lead to the same result.

For anyone who screams about 2A, the truth is, we treat children differently from adults. All. The. Time.

As a result, adding age limits to purchase laws (already exists in a lot of places, but I'd propose upping it from 18 to 21) and banning advertising directly aimed at kids should have been done a long time ago. And it still can be.

And let's not kid ourselves. The dirty little secret (not so little, not so secret, but definitely dirty) is that guns are a BIG component of effective suicide attempts, whether it's via handgun or the like or via a police conduit. Means restriction works with bridges and drugs. Why not start means restriction in this area, too? I suspect Naomi Judd's family would like to see this, as would many other families.

This means fer realz background checks and not whatever bullshit currently passes. It means regulating gun shows. Create a bureaucracy similar to that for cars (which will create jobs as a happy side effect). Registration of all guns, with annual inspections, and a competency test for handlers.

And it means requiring insurance. Don't hide it under homeowner's. Make it separate, with its own actuarial tables and rates. Give it, too, its own bureaucracy, which will create jobs, too.

And I would love to see a smackdown between the NRA and the insurance lobby. Our democracy is being eroded and misshapen anyway. Why not sell tickets to the duel of the century, fought with not guns but with prewritten bills (oh so convenient for Congress critters) and envelopes and briefcases stuffed fulla Benjamins.
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2022 04:52 pm
@jespah,
1. I believe the gun industry find ways to entice kids for the same reasons
the tobacco industry targeted kids.

2. I believe unadulterated greed to be that reason.

3. I suspect that they know exactly what they are doing.

4. I suspect they know that they can make a whole lot more money if they get them hooked
on their product at a very young age.

5. To my knowledge, every smoker I've ever met started smoking when they were teenagers
and too young to be smoking.

6. It seem like the gun industry is finding various ways of enticing kids.

7. Some ways directly. Some ways indirectly. Some ways subliminally.

8. I believe that enticing kids was deliberate and intentional.

9. I believe this might have been the basis for the $73 million dollar settlement
against the Remington gun manufacturer for the Sandy Hook families.
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2022 05:03 pm
How Sandy Hook families, gunmaker settled unprecedented lawsuit.

Francine and David Wheeler, whose son Ben was among the 26 students, teachers and staff killed
in the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Conn., are one of nine families
who accomplished the unthinkable: they sued Remington Arms, which recently settled the lawsuit
for $73 million, the largest payout by a gun company to victims of a mass shooting. Correspondent
Tracy Smith looks at the legal strategy used against an industry that was viewed by many as
protected from liability over gun violence.


Published May 29, 2022


0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  3  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2022 06:12 pm
@Real Music,
Oh, they're definitely trying to hook kids, just like the tobacco industry.

Talk to lifetime smokers and virtually ALL inevitably started when they were way too young to know better, and it was illegal to buy tobacco.

As in, 60 year olds who will tell you they've been smoking for 53 years. Yes, that young. Not teens, not even tweens. People who no one will argue against them being children, who are obviously without fully developed judgment. Elementary school students.

And of course it's greed, and of course it's deliberate and intentional. In both industries, if the customer uses the product exactly as designed and instructed, the customer will either die or cause someone else to die or be sent to prison.

As a result, both industries want and need replacement customers all the time (see: https://preventfirearmsuicide.efsgv.org/about-firearm-suicide/statistics/). They're happy to start them off extremely young (elementary school kids) because they're hoping for 5 decades or so of patronage.

If our government ever grows a spine, they'll go after them like they went after the tobacco industry.

Except they didn't.

It was private citizens bringing lawsuits. Sandy Hook parents are a good start. This needs to happen more and more and more.
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2022 06:29 pm
@jespah,
1. I'm not a smoker and I was never a smoker.

2. I do remember some of my childhood friends being smokers.

3. I remember some of my childhood friends smoking regularly
at around age 12 or 13.
0 Replies
 
PoliteMight
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2022 08:14 pm
@Real Music,
So what

"I do not blame the gun I blame the person who used the gun"

I would be proud to get my nine year old out there in practicing using weapons. I love the idea of a nine year old shooting champion, or a son or daughter who could go around fashionable as a hunter.

It should be normalized and by normal nobody should really care at all.
0 Replies
 
PoliteMight
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2022 10:25 pm
@Real Music,
Well lets be fair. It is called prohibition. It did not work.

It is the mentality of people. All your doing is promoting the sales and want to own weapons. Your not preventing people from using them nore your creating a peaceful method of thinking.

I am going to write something discriminative right now but is true. If every woman was to give up her job and handed it to a man most economic problems would be solved. Women by default are instinctive to follow orders, power of command, and be directed. Men on the other hand are alphas, when one man in the herd is gone another ( like a child ) is able to take over. The only reason why gun control is a positive thing is the amount of "men" like myself who ended up being separated from their fathers living in the household of women folk never being able to surpass there fathers. Yes in times of war this could be labeled true but we are talking about voting and communities. Which is mostly comprised of women who will easily submit there freedoms for safety because they spend their lives in chains by want. Beyond that the community leaders would be men who walk with their fathers and grandfathers who stand together strong. Turning these women folk into breeders of human shields, with no real house. The same idealogy with equal pay because equal pay is really when you raise a womans salary to a mans salary but in reality nothing was raised at all, everybody is being under paid.

Trust me between "Bachelor Pad Economics" and "Turner Diaries" your whining complaints about the future is an old problem.

See the two tribes that created the baseline for Judaism. They were fighting and the leaders of Egypt saw how stupid there were and decided to put these morons to work. Only then they realized there mistake and became one people. Guess what? That knowledge was turn into all the modern problems we have today. Two groups of people fighting over stupidity.

How many times are we going to go into gun violence. Why not just admit
we have been tricked into fighting amongst ourselves over this stupidity.
People want guns more then ever because you talk about banning guns. Chances are my neighbor got their AR-15 among others just for the sake of having them.

Again

Just for the sake of having guns. Putting more bars on guns will not stop related violence at all. It is the method of thinking from peoples point of view.



Mame
 
  3  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2022 11:17 am
@PoliteMight,
PoliteMight wrote:

I am going to write something discriminative right now but is true. If every woman was to give up her job and handed it to a man most economic problems would be solved. Women by default are instinctive to follow orders, power of command, and be directed.


That is quite laughable. I've found quite a few male managers, supervisors, bosses unable to cope with the work without the advice of their female administrator. I can cite many instances where deals and money were saved by the intelligence of women.

PoliteMight wrote:

Yes in times of war this could be labeled true but we are talking about voting and communities. Which is mostly comprised of women who will easily submit there freedoms for safety because they spend their lives in chains by want.


Which woman 'easily submit their freedoms for safety'? I don't know of one.

PoliteMight wrote:

Turning these women folk into breeders of human shields, with no real house.


No idea what the hell that means.

PoliteMight wrote:

Putting more bars on guns will not stop related violence at all.


If you don't have a gun, you don't have a shooting.
PoliteMight wrote:

It is the method of thinking from peoples point of view.


No idea what the hell that means, either.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2022 11:36 am
@Mame,
I'm sorry my gender includes so many arseholes.
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2022 11:37 am
@izzythepush,
Thankfully, you're not one of them Smile He's all gibberish, anyway.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2022 11:42 am
@Mame,
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Idiots like that make one ashamed to be a man.
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2022 01:14 pm
@izzythepush,
He's an anachronism. Most men today aren't like that, including ones on here. But he is cringe-worthy, I'll give you that Smile
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2022 02:42 pm
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
This is Joe Camel all over again, and really should lead to the same result.

The cigarette industry was actually doing something nefarious. Selling guns to people is actually a good thing.


jespah wrote:
For anyone who screams about 2A, the truth is, we treat children differently from adults. All. The. Time.

Treating kids differently doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with letting them use guns under supervision.


jespah wrote:
As a result, adding age limits to purchase laws (already exists in a lot of places, but I'd propose upping it from 18 to 21)

That will only pass constitutional muster if we raise the age of adulthood to 21. That means no voting until age 21. No joining the military or police until age 21. And let's add driving too. No driving until age 21.


jespah wrote:
and banning advertising directly aimed at kids should have been done a long time ago. And it still can be.

I don't know about that. The First Amendment might get in the way.

It's not like there is anything inappropriate about kids having guns so long as they are properly supervised.


jespah wrote:
And let's not kid ourselves. The dirty little secret (not so little, not so secret, but definitely dirty) is that guns are a BIG component of effective suicide attempts, whether it's via handgun or the like or via a police conduit. Means restriction works with bridges and drugs. Why not start means restriction in this area, too? I suspect Naomi Judd's family would like to see this, as would many other families.

I'm the only one I know who has ever proposed something that would help reduce gun suicides.

Every time I propose it, the left opposes it. I no longer believe that the left actually cares about suicides.

I still wouldn't mind seeing my proposal go into effect though, just to reduce some of those suicides. My idea is to set up a system where suicidal people can temporarily and voluntarily hand in their guns for safekeeping until they are better.


jespah wrote:
This means fer realz background checks and not whatever bullshit currently passes. It means regulating gun shows.

It's hard to see how that would have any impact on suicides.

What is wrong with current background checks?

How are current gun shows not regulated enough?


jespah wrote:
Create a bureaucracy similar to that for cars (which will create jobs as a happy side effect). Registration of all guns, with annual inspections, and a competency test for handlers.

Cars only have to be registered if they are driven on public roads. People only need a drivers license to drive on public roads.

Treating guns like cars would mean no rules for guns except for specific guns that are carried in public. And a license to carry in public would be valid nationwide.


jespah wrote:
And it means requiring insurance. Don't hide it under homeowner's. Make it separate, with its own actuarial tables and rates. Give it, too, its own bureaucracy, which will create jobs, too.

It's a bit late for that. The left has already undermined the possibility of gun insurance. Can't place impossible requirements on the exercise of a right.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2022 02:44 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
9. I believe this might have been the basis for the $73 million dollar settlement against the Remington gun manufacturer for the Sandy Hook families.

It wasn't. The insurers foolishly settled a frivolous lawsuit.

I'd be pissed if I owned stock in any of the insurers. Luckily I do not.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2022 02:46 pm
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
In both industries, if the customer uses the product exactly as designed and instructed, the customer will either die or cause someone else to die or be sent to prison.

That isn't true. Hunting guns used as intended only cause the deaths of game animals.

Self defense guns used as intended might not necessarily lead to a death. But I acknowledge that it is a possibility.

Target shooting guns used as intended will never lead to any deaths, human or animal.


jespah wrote:
If our government ever grows a spine, they'll go after them like they went after the tobacco industry.

The government is not allowed to go after people who have done nothing wrong.


jespah wrote:
Except they didn't.
It was private citizens bringing lawsuits. Sandy Hook parents are a good start. This needs to happen more and more and more.

The Sandy Hook parents are deliberately trying to violate people's civil liberties for no reason.

That's not a good thing. They are bad people who are trying to do a bad thing. Civil liberties violations should never happen.
0 Replies
 
 

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