better off without religion?

As far as the earth being flat - it has been a LONG time since we did.

I know Aristotle knew it was round (the shadow on the moon they knew was caused by the earth and that shadow suggest a circular shape - even though later we discovered that wasn't exactly right either - it is flat on either end so the proper terming is a oblate spheroid).

However, Thales reasoned that the earth was a disk floating on water. SO it seems sometime between the 800's b.c.e and 300's b.c.e. th western world figured out that the world was not flat or disk shaped.

If god could be proven or disproven we wouldn't be here.I don't know if god excist. Neither does anyone else.

Wait, not all people believed the world was flat.

Stop the presses....we have a news flash!

John Jones wrote:

If someone thought the earth was flat we should say who thought it. Besides, a model is only as good as the evidence. In years to come we will not say that the earth is a three dimensional spheroid but a multidimensional bollock.

Well, John....Amigo wrote:

Quote:

We use to worship the sun we thought the world was flat.

And you responded,

Quote:

We never thought the earth was flat.

It sounds to me as though you understood to whom Amigo was referring...and in fact, agreed with his use of "we."

I rather suspect Amigo was saying that humans at one time thought the earth was flat.

It is apparent to me that you are arguing that humans never thought the earth was flat...and you seem to be basing that on the fact that you saw some pictures somewhere which showed something.

You also asserted that the notion that humans at one point thought the earth was flat was "...a myth put out by an american journalist at the turn of the century, promoting a science magazine."

Your thesis is absurd...and considering the argument you presented here, you really should not be giving advice on how arguments ought to be sustained.

Good points Frank and Amigo - Your both right - I get caught up in my discipline at times and foget the power of denial.

Thanks for the realization.

What about this:

Could it be that religion and the worship of God are different? Worship of God is not bad - but religion is?

It just seems like the true worship of God is a humbling experience wheras religion tends to be engaging in another power brokering that humans love to engage in - and worship ourselves and what we can do.

TTF

TTF

The flat earth idea was popularised by an american journalist who said that religion was stupid because it always claimed the earth was flat, which was never true.

Scientists like to rubbish the opposition. We fall for it.

The earth is flat at any point you walk on it, except at hills and tumuli. This is borne out by observation. Science places observation on a pedestal.

John Jones wrote:

The flat earth idea was popularised by an american journalist who said that religion was stupid because it always claimed the earth was flat, which was never true.

That is an absurd contention on your part, John.

I defy you to prove that...

a) it was never true that people thought the earth was flat...or...

b) that this notion is merely an idea popularized by an American journalist.

Quote:

Scientists like to rubbish the opposition. We fall for it.

You really are way out there!

Quote:

The earth is flat at any point you walk on it, except at hills and tumuli. This is borne out by observation. Science places observation on a pedestal.

Way out there!

Frank Apisa wrote:

John Jones wrote:

The flat earth idea was popularised by an american journalist who said that religion was stupid because it always claimed the earth was flat, which was never true.

That is an absurd contention on your part, John.

I defy you to prove that...

a) it was never true that people thought the earth was flat...or...

b) that this notion is merely an idea popularized by an American journalist.

Quote:

Scientists like to rubbish the opposition. We fall for it.

You really are way out there!

Quote:

The earth is flat at any point you walk on it, except at hills and tumuli. This is borne out by observation. Science places observation on a pedestal.

Way out there!

You will have to indicate a moment in history when religion thought that the earth was flat. The medieval church certainly didn't. How far back do you want to go?

Making claims that no-one has experienced the voice or presence of God is a bit ...

How will you cope when they say that the the earth is not a 3 dimensional sphere but a multidimensional string? A fact is true only according to a particular model. So even if people thought the earth was flat, they expressed a true fact.

John Jones wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

John Jones wrote:

I am not saying the earth is round, oval, spheroid, or anything else.

What I am doing is challenging some really dumb-assed statements you have made.

And I notice that you are dodging the challenge.

The flat earth idea was popularised by an american journalist who said that religion was stupid because it always claimed the earth was flat, which was never true. So religion never thought the earth was flat, unless you simply like to think that it did think that, which is dishonest.

We never thought the earth was flat. I am quite entitled to say that. Different models of the earth present different earths in each case, The earth you speak of, the round earth, was NEVER thought of as flat. I have already said that, but you ignored it. Oh yes, and read this again: So religion never thought the earth was flat, unless you simply like to think that it did think that, which is dishonest.

So that puts a rocket up sciences arse and all its believers, of which you count yourself as one.

Frank Apisa wrote:

John Jones wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

John Jones wrote:

I am not saying the earth is round, oval, spheroid, or anything else.

What I am doing is challenging some really dumb-assed statements you have made.

And I notice that you are dodging the challenge.

The flat earth idea was popularised by an american journalist who said that religion was stupid because it always claimed the earth was flat, which was never true. So religion never thought the earth was flat, unless you simply like to think that it did think that, which is dishonest.

We never thought the earth was flat. I am quite entitled to say that. Different models of the earth present different earths in each case, The earth you speak of, the round earth, was NEVER thought of as flat. I have already said that, but you ignored it. Oh yes, and read this again: So religion never thought the earth was flat, unless you simply like to think that it did think that, which is dishonest.

So that puts a rocket up sciences arse and all its believers, of which you count yourself as one.

John Jones, could you perhaps give us evidence of this American journalist. Also, religion is an idea, it doesn't think for its self. Could you please be more specific.

I am pretty sure that some people throughout the course of history had the idea that the earth was flat. Some even thought if they sailed out too far they would fall off. I don't understand how you can make the claim that nobody EVER thought the earth was flat.