Words and meaning

Ray wrote:

Amigo is right. If the word is to represent a symbol referring to a number, then it does have meaning.

If a numeral is employed in a situation where its standard association with an application, such as a count, is required, then it has meaning as a number. Until then, it does not have meaning and is a numeral.

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JJ.

I think Spengler would have asked you to say what having no meaning meant.Does the square root of two have a meaning?Why were the Greeks frightened of indefinite numbers?
Suppose a metaphysician speculated in unmeaning number and came to find meaning.Isn't the latest shuttle success an example and that has meaning as do nuclear reactions.

I may be missing the point of the discussion.Is it just playful sophistry.

At what point in the slowing of the shuttle from 18,000 mph to zero can it be said to be going at any named speed and for what named length of time?The numbers given out by Houston during this phase,which I watched spellbound,have meaning to the viewers even though they only approximate to the actual situation.

The examples I have seen above relate to ancient Greek number systems.Faustian number systems originating metaphysically have meaning in the birth of a scientific culture and are reflected in some modern music,painting and architecture.

Does a dice not being used have a meaning?

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spendius wrote:

JJ.

I think Spengler would have asked you to say what having no meaning meant.Does the square root of two have a meaning?Why were the Greeks frightened of indefinite numbers?
Suppose a metaphysician speculated in unmeaning number and came to find meaning.Isn't the latest shuttle success an example and that has meaning as do nuclear reactions.

I may be missing the point of the discussion.Is it just playful sophistry.

At what point in the slowing of the shuttle from 18,000 mph to zero can it be said to be going at any named speed and for what named length of time?The numbers given out by Houston during this phase,which I watched spellbound,have meaning to the viewers even though they only approximate to the actual situation.

The examples I have seen above relate to ancient Greek number systems.Faustian number systems originating metaphysically have meaning in the birth of a scientific culture and are reflected in some modern music,painting and architecture.

Does a dice not being used have a meaning?

Numerals can have a meaning as long as it is not as numbers. For example, team players can have their favourite numerals on their tee-shirts. I don't know why you run words into each other with a period or comma between them. It makes for a jerky sensation when reading, and is off-putting.
A dice not being used presents a meaning when we consider what we are going to do with it.

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If a numeral has no meaning intill I use it can I use A 3 as A 6,4,7 or 8.

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JJ-

Someone else complained about my typing on the same point.I can't see what the problem is I'm afraid.Maybe two people have a similar eyesight difficulty.I have tried comparing one of your posts with an old one of mine I am no longer familiar with and I find no difficulty with the reading of either. Is it a space after a stop you want. Like that.
What you suggest is actually done in Decline of the West which I happen to have here.

How about an article dug up on a archeology excercise. Does that have a meaning before it is found? Or does the finding of it give it its meaning?

Have you tackled Meaning of Numbers in Spengler?

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Amigo wrote:

If a numeral has no meaning intill I use it can I use A 3 as A 6,4,7 or 8.

Yes, as long as you stick to the way you use it. You would also have to tell others your new symbolism in case there was mis-understandings.

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spendius wrote:

JJ-

Someone else complained about my typing on the same point.I can't see what the problem is I'm afraid.Maybe two people have a similar eyesight difficulty.I have tried comparing one of your posts with an old one of mine I am no longer familiar with and I find no difficulty with the reading of either. Is it a space after a stop you want. Like that.
What you suggest is actually done in Decline of the West which I happen to have here.

How about an article dug up on a archeology excercise. Does that have a meaning before it is found? Or does the finding of it give it its meaning?

Have you tackled Meaning of Numbers in Spengler?

I haven't seen published or freehand texts run words into each other. I've never seen it before and it looks and feels jerky. At U.N.E.S.C.O.I might find some confusions. Finding something must be 'something' I suppose, or it wouldn't be found. I don't think I would be able to say I found anything until I specified the framework of my search (e.g, an archeolgical dig).

If we consider an object before it is found, then we presume to place a silent witness by the hidden object, who observes it with the same eye as we would if it was found. So that's a bit of a cheat.

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JJ

Oh well. That's okay then. I understand now.

What about the"electron"? Does that concept have meaning before it is elucidated assuming it has been or will be?

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spendius wrote:

JJ

Oh well. That's okay then. I understand now.

What about the"electron"? Does that concept have meaning before it is elucidated assuming it has been or will be?

I don't know what the current definition of 'electron' is. But I would not say that there is an electron which has definitions associated with it - I would not be able to define THAT electron. That's because that electron would again remain hidden. We would then have to imagine a silent witness who alone can see what it really is.

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John Jones wrote:

Amigo wrote:
If a numeral has no meaning intill I use it can I use A 3 as A 6,4,7 or 8.

Yes, as long as you stick to the way you use it. You would also have to tell others your new symbolism in case there was mis-understandings.

It never had any symbolism to change.

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JJ-

Don't we know some of the things that electrons do? And can be made to do.

Is this coming down to a form/function discussion which is an artistic problem.

If two people hear or read the same words and derive different meanings from them does the book or the speech have a different nature for each?Is that Derrida territory?

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spendius wrote:

JJ-

Don't we know some of the things that electrons do?

Does the electron announce itself? so that all we have to do is look for it? And how do we know that what we find is the electron?

This is about grammar. I can't search for something, like an electron, unless I have a definition of it.

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Amigo wrote:

John Jones wrote:
Amigo wrote:
If a numeral has no meaning intill I use it can I use A 3 as A 6,4,7 or 8.

Yes, as long as you stick to the way you use it. You would also have to tell others your new symbolism in case there was mis-understandings.
It never had any symbolism to change.

The symbolism would refer to its use as a number. If you replace a three for a five, then the new symbolism must be reported so that confusions do not arise.

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JJ, I disagree from the beginning.The fact that you you can identify 3 gives it meaning before it is used. Do you or do you not know what this numeral means? 3

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Amigo wrote:

JJ, I disagree from the beginning.The fact that you you can identify 3 gives it meaning before it is used. Do you or do you not know what this numeral means? 3

If I place the sign three on a team-players shirt, how does that translate to the number three? If I pick out the sign three from a bag of numerals, how does that translate to the number three? And what if I pick out another three - would that mean that there are two number three's? If not, you must say what the difference is.

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Your brain identifies it's meaning.Even if you deny it.If you ask me how many pears I want and I point at the numeral three are you going to tell me you don't know what I mean?

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lol, let's calm down...

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Amigo wrote:

Your brain identifies it's meaning.Even if you deny it.If you ask me how many pears I want and I point at the numeral three are you going to tell me you don't know what I mean?

Let us do our thinking without the brain. Let us leave it where it is, content and effortless in its movements.

If you point to to a sign 'three', I would not know what you meant. If I knew that you meant three (counted) pears, then the three you point to is representative of a number. I now put that three in my pocket and go on holiday. I later look in my pocket and pull out a three. Is that the number of pears you have?

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