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Effective Behaviors in Life

 
 
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:21 am
I could use many examples, but let me take the case of a high school teacher. Which of these two do you think would have more obedient and loyal students?

Teacher #1: Pretty tough, and doesn't try to be your pal, but always fair and never malicious or capricious.

Teacher #2: Very mature. Always kindly and helpful, even to those who don't deserve it or reciprocate. He shows empathy for everyone. He isn't a pushover and he is capable of sending you to the office if a kind word doesn't make you behave, but he is always pleasant about even doing that.
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material girl
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:15 am
Hmm, they kinda sound the same.Id probably have more respect for #2 though.
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:24 am
1 and 2 sound like descriptions of the same person from different angles.

Since I don't like the idea of someone trying to make high school students obedient, I'd steer away from any teacher with that on their agenda/resume.

There is no need for students to be loyal (who does the teacher expect to be attacking them?), so again, no thanks to that.

I am interested in developing students' co-operation skills and enouraging their interest in learning, so I'd be looking for a teacher who could challenge and motivate.

A self-motivated, co-operative student - interested in challenges, is going to turn into a colleague/employee I'd be interested in. Obedient and loyal? that's a poodle, not a student or good employee.
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 10:04 am
ehBeth wrote:
1 and 2 sound like descriptions of the same person from different angles.

Since I don't like the idea of someone trying to make high school students obedient, I'd steer away from any teacher with that on their agenda/resume.

There is no need for students to be loyal (who does the teacher expect to be attacking them?), so again, no thanks to that....

For obedient, you can substitute "reasonably cooperative." I wasn't trying to be precise here, just to communicate the sense of the thing.

I still think, however, that people sometimes do feel loyalty to other people and sometimes don't.

My real question was what the likely reaction to these two different behaviors would be.

Also, my question was not about teaching. I could have equally as well chosen a different environment. My question was about the two behavioral styles.
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Lady J
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 11:03 am
In neither of your character behaviours did I read the word respect. And to me, in any environment that would be paramount. In using your example of the high school teacher, I think any teacher who shows respect for his students will eventually receive that in return. I believe then, taking it a step further, loyalty is born out of respect. I could not expect to be respectful or loyal to one who did show me the same courtesy. Moving further along, once mutual respect and loyalty are laid as the foundation, you will overall have, in the case of the high school teacher again, students who are willing to learn, more excited about their projects and eager to do a better job. But that's just me. Smile
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 11:03 am
I think both would be fine as long as they were consistent and firm. A lot might depend on the subject being taught and the students themselves.
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ebrown p
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 12:34 pm
"Obedient and Loyal Students" is not the goal of a high school teacher.

I might even go as far to say that both obedience and loyalty can, at times, get in the way of critical thinking and understanding.

I hope teachers will create more students who think on their own and can challenge authority. Either of the personalities you describe reflect on their ability to do most important things-- although I would probably prefer the second guy.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 01:00 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
"Obedient and Loyal Students" is not the goal of a high school teacher.

I might even go as far to say that both obedience and loyalty can, at times, get in the way of critical thinking and understanding.

I hope teachers will create more students who think on their own and can challenge authority. Either of the personalities you describe reflect on their ability to do most important things-- although I would probably prefer the second guy.

Well, I was not intending to talk about teaching. I was trying to discover something about what forms of behavior are most effective in life. I think that both of these would be quite good teachers. But the second guy is very interesting because he would almost never speak or act harshly. Generally kindness and empathy would be his tools for everything, and even his extremely rare reprimands of a student, delivered only in extreme circumstances, would be respectful and mild. I wondered if a person who behaved like this might actually foster greater cooperation, even among immature teenagers, than someone who was obviously forceful. I have only met a handful of people like this in my life, and generally they did achieve an extremely high level of cooperation and loyalty from others. It would be very interesting indeed, if it turned out that being very, very nice is more powerful in most cases than being forceful. I emphasize that I am not thinking at all about ethics or morality, but only about what is effective.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 01:15 pm
My point is that to talk about "effective behaviors" you need to define a purpose.

The behaviors that would make an effective Marine are probably quite different than effective behaviors for a manicurist.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 01:16 pm
It does depend on what the co-operation and loyalty is in the service of doesn't it.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 01:16 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
My point is that to talk about "effective behaviors" you need to define a purpose.

The behaviors that would make an effective Marine are probably quite different than effective behaviors for a manicurist.

Well, for instance as a manager, a teacher, or just as a person living in the world.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 01:18 pm
spendius wrote:
It does depend on what the co-operation and loyalty is in the service of doesn't it.

Well, I wasn't contemplating anything sinister.
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spendius
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 01:22 pm
I was just thinking of Hot Metal Jacket and military training in general.And sport training.
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 02:05 pm
Re: Effective Behaviors in Life
Brandon9000 wrote:
I could use many examples, but let me take the case of a high school teacher.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 02:06 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Also, my question was not about teaching. I could have equally as well chosen a different environment. My question was about the two behavioral styles.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 02:08 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Well, I was not intending to talk about teaching.


Brandon, if you weren't intending to talk about teaching, using teaching as an example probably wasn't helpful in trying to elicit responses you're interested in.

I do try to respond to what it seems you're asking about, but it's difficult in cases like this.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 02:15 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Well, I was not intending to talk about teaching.


Brandon, if you weren't intending to talk about teaching, using teaching as an example probably wasn't helpful in trying to elicit responses you're interested in.

I do try to respond to what it seems you're asking about, but it's difficult in cases like this.

Sorry to be confusing. I didn't anticipate arousing discussion of teaching itself, although, clearly I should have.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 02:51 pm
Okay, I'll step in.

Think of it as two different management styles. Bear and I are completely different when it comes to this. I'm more like the second and Bear is more like the first.

I tend to have better results with employees and our children. They tend to be more willing to do extra for me than they are for Bear, and with a better attitude about it.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 03:04 pm
squinney wrote:
Okay, I'll step in.

Think of it as two different management styles. Bear and I are completely different when it comes to this. I'm more like the second and Bear is more like the first.

I tend to have better results with employees and our children. They tend to be more willing to do extra for me than they are for Bear, and with a better attitude about it.

This doesn't surprise me. In the very few cases when I have encountered people like this in my life, I believe four times, generally they have inspired a tremendous amount of loyalty, and everyone has sort of closed ranks around them to protect them.
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John Jones
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 03:49 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Well, I was not intending to talk about teaching.


Brandon, if you weren't intending to talk about teaching, using teaching as an example probably wasn't helpful in trying to elicit responses you're interested in.

I do try to respond to what it seems you're asking about, but it's difficult in cases like this.


Good Teachers? I think a good smack in the face sorts out problems with the little bastards, even with the bigger ones.
That's all they need.
A good smack in the face.
Done me a power of good.
A good smack in the face. That's what I say.
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