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Putin's war

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Mon 4 Apr, 2022 04:29 pm
https://i.imgur.com/jogC6yH.jpg

Funny how the Putin humpers have just plain STFU.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Mon 4 Apr, 2022 07:01 pm
Fact-checking Russian claims about Bucha killings

By Reality Check and BBC Monitoring
BBC News

https://www.bbc.com/news/60981238

The UN Secretary General, Antonio Guterres has called for an independent investigation into "the images of civilians killed in Bucha, Ukraine".

Warning: This piece contains graphic images which some may find upsetting.

After Russian troops withdrew from the town on the outskirts of Kyiv, images of bodies lying in the streets subsequently emerged and members of media organisations also saw corpses.

Ukraine accused Russia of a "deliberate massacre" but Russia called it "a staged provocation by the Kiev regime". It made a series of unfounded claims about the footage from Bucha.
Claim: 'Faked dead bodies'

After the Russian withdrawal, footage taken from a car as it drove through the town showed bodies on either side of the road.

Pro-Russian social media accounts then circulated a slowed-down version of the video, claiming that the arm on one of the bodies moved.

The Russian Embassy in Canada tweeted the video, with the caption "staged video showing faked dead bodies in the town of Bucha near Kiev".

The video is grainy but a closer analysis of it shows that what is claimed to be a moving arm, is actually a mark in the bottom right corner of the vehicle's windscreen.
Media caption,
Debunking Russian claims about Bucha killings

We've circled this mark - which looks like a raindrop or a speck of dirt - along with similar marks visible on the windscreen earlier in the video.

Another Russian claim focuses on a different part of the footage. The car passes another body, lying next to a pavement with red and yellow stones and shattered brown fencing.

As it drives on, the body can be seen briefly in the right-hand wing mirror. Pro-Russian accounts claim the body "sits up".But a slowed-down version of the video shows the wing mirror is clearly distorting the reflection of the body, as well as houses in the background.

The body in question appears in the car's wing mirror during the video

The same effect can be seen in videos of similar wing mirrors posted on the internet.

The BBC has matched both bodies from the video (posted on 2 April) with high-resolution photos provided by Getty Images and AFP on 3 April.
Still of videoImage source, BBC/Getty

In the video, the first body is lying on their back near a white and yellow kerb. The pavement to the right is part asphalt and part grass. A silver car can be seen on the pavement with its boot open in front of a white fence. The same car, kerb, pavement and fence are visible in the Getty/AFP image.

Still comparisonImage source, BBC/Getty

The second body has a black jacket and what appears to be a bloodied tourniquet or bandage on the right arm. They are lying on their side next to a red and yellow pavement, in front of a shattered brown fence. The black jacket, tourniquet/bandage, pavement and fence all match the photo of the body published by Getty/AFP.
Claim: Bodies 'not stiffened'

Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs tweeted: "It is of particular worry that all the bodies of the people whose images have been published by the Kiev regime are not stiffened after at least four days."

According to the Ukrainian military, the Russians left in the early hours of 31 March. The Russians say they left on 30 March.

In the hours after death, bodies go through a process called rigor mortis where muscles contract and stiffen.

We asked a forensic pathologist for their opinion on whether a body would be expected to be "stiffened" after four days. One who has worked in places including Kosovo and Rwanda on war crimes investigations, who did not want to be named, told the BBC that by four days rigor mortis has "usually subsided".

The Russian tweet also claimed that the bodies "have no typical cadaver stains".

It's not clear what this means but the pathologist said the appearance of someone who has died from a gunshot wound or other act of violence will vary widely depending on the weapon used, from what distance they were shot and so on.

There isn't always a lot of visible blood as it may pool underneath people or soak into heavy clothing, especially if someone is dressed for cold weather. The tweet could be referring to the fact the blood within your body pools downwards after death as it stops circulating around the body, which can lead the skin to turn reddish or purple.

But if someone is lying down, the site of this blood pooling and discolouration may well not be visible from an image alone.

Claim: 'Not a single local resident has suffered from any violent action'

The Russian defence ministry claimed that while Bucha was under Russian control "not a single local resident has suffered from any violent action".

This claim, however, contradicts numerous eyewitness accounts from residents.

A local teacher told Human Rights Watch on 4 March that Russian forces had rounded up five men and summarily executed one of them.

Local residents who spoke to the Russian investigative website The Insider painted a similar picture. "These were horrific days. When neither your courtyard, your house or even your life belongs to you. There is no electricity, water, gas. It's forbidden to leave the house, if you leave - you get shot," local resident Kristina told The Insider.

Locals told the BBC that the Russians had systematically broken down doors to loot flats, and, while soldiers stole valuables and food, residents were forced to sit in the cellar.

The Russian Defence Ministry also claimed their forces left Bucha on 30 March, and that footage showing bodies there "did not emerge until the fourth day, when the Security Service of Ukraine and representatives of Ukrainian media arrived in the town".But media organisations such as AFP published images of dead bodies on 2 April, and we found videos circulating of corpses on the town's streets on social media as early as 1 April.

Reporting by: Jake Horton, Shayan Sardarizadeh, Rachel Schraer, Olga Robinson, Alistair Coleman and Daniele Palumbo.

Video production by: Sarah Glatte and Jacqueline Galvin.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Mon 4 Apr, 2022 08:35 pm
Builder
 
  -3  
Mon 4 Apr, 2022 09:37 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
In comparison, the intel and advisors told Bush and Cheney there were no WMDs in Iraq, but they didn't listen, and had no intention of doing anything other than invade on false premise, and murder, loot, rape, and destroy infrastructure, leaving literally millions of Iraqis without a future.
Builder
 
  -3  
Mon 4 Apr, 2022 09:56 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
Funny how the Putin humpers have just plain STFU


Unlike you Biden humpers, who believe anything the press tells you.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 4 Apr, 2022 11:47 pm
The Kremlin rejects any blame for the Butsha atrocities, speaking of "falsifications" (either by Ukrainian "Nazis" or by NATO, depending on the Russian conspiracy theory).
Other countries, however, see Russia's army behind the fatal shootings - especially as new satellite images reinforce this suspicion.
Builder
 
  -3  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 02:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Other countries, however, see Russia's army behind the fatal shootings - especially as new satellite images reinforce this suspicion.


Do you have these images to share for us, Walter?

And do you discount the possibility of Russian forces not being responsible for the carnage?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 03:04 am
@Builder,
Who honestly gives a monkey's what you think?

You're the most delusional idiot on A2K, you believe the Queen is a lizard.

The satellite images are available online for anyone to see.

What is not available is any evidence that these massacres were staged as Putin claims.

If you weren't so obsessed with licking Putin's arse and repeating lies you'd realise that.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 03:17 am
@izzythepush,
You can't claim that the Queen is a lizard, the moon landings were faked, Israel was behind 9/11, the Saudi Royal family is Jewish and that David Icke is the son of God and expect to retain a shred of credibility.

Builder only believes what fits in with his own prejudices, facts don't come into it.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 04:08 am
a clown wrote:
And do you discount the possibility of Russian forces not being responsible for the carnage?


Duplicitous minds swimming in the same sewer, swallowing the Putin-polluted water, and regurgitating the same pro-Russian propaganda!

https://i.imgur.com/QmLZC8X.jpg
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 06:03 am
@Builder,
Those images have been around the news and I posted above with the debunking of what the Russians claim.

You are despicable.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  6  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 06:21 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
Do you have these images to share for us, Walter?
Serious question: are not reading anything else than coming from Russia?

Builder wrote:
And do you discount the possibility of Russian forces not being responsible for the carnage?
It may of course be
- NATO troops and the USA may have killed hundreds of civilians, and then shortly afterwards had the photos published in the press devoted to them (i.e. all over the world),
- then of course it could be that the Azov Battalion had nothing better to do than to slaughter Ukrainian fellow citizens.


Wotan's Mickey Mouse wrote:
The most brilliant propaganda technique will not produce success unless a basic principle is continually carried in the mind - it must be limited to a few points and repeated over and over again.



There are still some who doubt the number of victims of the civilians murdered by the National Socialist regime and its allies from 1933 to 1945.

Maybe this number was also 'invented' by the Rothschilds etc, isn't it, Builder?
Glennn
 
  -3  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 07:40 am
@Builder,
You're probably talking to some former high school cheerleaders. That would explain their mindless applause of everything the home team does, and their condemnation of another team that does the same as their team? They're such very loyal followers of the god of hypocrisy.

I wonder what punishment they think the U.S. should suffer as a result of war crimes committed against the Iraqi people.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 07:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Horrors of Bucha: At the Scene of the War Crimes
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 07:51 am
@Glennn,
Obviously you didn't follow the various threads here about it.
But there are still more and other possibilities for someone following the Russian conspiracies ...
Glennn
 
  -3  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 07:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yeah, but what punishment should the U.S. have suffered for the war crime called Iraq? I mean, if you're going to be fair.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 07:55 am
Former Russian leader Dmitry Medvedev is tuning his country for a prolonged fight against Ukraine. President Vladimir Putin has set as a goal the "demilitarization and denazification" of Ukraine, Medvedev wrote Tuesday on his Telegram channel. "These difficult tasks cannot be accomplished in a hurry."
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 07:56 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Yeah, but what punishment should the U.S. have suffered for the war crime called Iraq? I mean, if you're going to be fair.
You could look that up in the War Crimes Act of 1996.
Glennn
 
  -2  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 08:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Why didn't the U.S. suffer punishment for killing a million people, wounding who knows how many, destroying infrastructure, and creating millions of refugees?
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Tue 5 Apr, 2022 08:02 am
@Glennn,
Are you suggesting its a wash???

I remember you being all gung ho-ish about US **** in Iraq.

Nobody gets a freebie.
 

 
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