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Putin's war

 
 
Albuquerque
 
  -1  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 06:43 pm
@Lash,
I don't think there was an orchestrated war by the west but certainly there wasn't any care to prevent one and to some degree and extent an expectancy that Putin might crack and do what he did!
glitterbag
 
  2  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 06:48 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

In the opinion of the people you reference, who think the war was orchestrated…
Do you happen to be privy to who they think did the orchestrating?


There are days when my head starts to hurt before I even log in.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 07:07 pm
@snood,
A couple of people have brought articles — some written years ago — that warned expanding NATO would paint Putin into a corner and cause him to respond like he has.
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 07:14 pm
@Albuquerque,
In retrospect, orchestrated might have been too strong a word. Maybe intentionally caused.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 07:35 pm
A conservative Lee Smith and a lefty Glenn Greenwald agree on some points around the fault of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

These are widely held views.

https://youtu.be/OrfeyjKCaPs

Introductions end around minute 3.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 07:58 pm
@Lash,
It's not a new idea, Putin would love NATO to go away. This whole NATO idea has been flapping around for years. As far back as I can remember, from the time George Bush looked into Puton's eye and declared "He's a good man", Putin has been attempting to resurrect the old Soviet Union. His goals have never been indistinct, he runs a brutal empire and the rest of the world has been dancing around him and his goals since he arrived.

If you want to know what I think, I think it's breathtakingly awful. Lots of people will die to protect their country, and God only know when he will stop.
roger
 
  3  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 08:45 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

If you want to know what I think, I think it's breathtakingly awful. Lots of people will die to protect their country, and God only know when he will stop.

Stop? I don't think he could live with the dishonor of admitting that he couldn't subdue a country like Ukraine.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 08:51 pm
@roger,
No, he wants it and he will take it. He's not interested in the price others will have to pay. His greed is bottomless, he is the epitome of authoritarian ruler.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 08:54 pm
@glitterbag,
I think that is the part that shakes my soul, will he be successful or will the entire world be involved once again to reign in a monster.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  4  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 09:01 pm
@Albuquerque,
He's not likely to get the No-Fly Zone, but if he doesn't ask, he certainly won't get it. I presume you're talking about that, but not sure because I didn't see him as erratic. So he's been called 'emotional' - is that it? Well, what about Putin going off the rails? Z's also not a military guy or seasoned politician and he's seeing his people and country bombed and blasted has to be gut-wrenching.

I did not hear him calling the West a traitor, either. Maybe I just didn't hear it, but I did not. The West is all he's got at the moment.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  3  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 10:05 pm
A friend told me if anyone agrees to a No Fly, they’ll automatically be pulled into the war.

You can’t demand a No Fly zone unless you police it. The minute you police it, you’re in the war.

If the US gets lured into demanding a No Fly zone, many people believe we’ll slide straight into a devastating world-altering, nuclear war.

roger
 
  2  
Sat 5 Mar, 2022 11:17 pm
@Lash,
I would call that a real possibility.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 6 Mar, 2022 12:21 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
If the US gets lured into demanding a No Fly zone, many people believe we’ll slide straight into a devastating world-altering, nuclear war.
And that would be in Europe, again.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Sun 6 Mar, 2022 12:51 am
Both Visa and Mastercard have announced they're pulling out of Russia.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 6 Mar, 2022 01:23 am
The Tories have long benefitted from Russian money. Now Tory Party co chair, Ben Elliot, is under pressure to resign due to his extensive links with Russian oligarchs.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 6 Mar, 2022 01:48 am
@izzythepush,
Today's Observer has an interesting report about How London became the place to be for Putin’s oligarchs
Quote:
From its biggest private house to a disused tube station, London has long been an attractive place for the Russian president’s cronies to buy property. Their ill-gotten wealth permeated the capital at the expense of us all
[... ... ...]
The attractions of London include the paradoxical fact that its legal system is considered robust and trustworthy and its politics, for now at least, stable. In other words, it has precisely those institutions whose absence helps kleptocrats to extract wealth from their own countries. Once their loot has been converted into land and masonry, behind a creamy stucco Victorian facade, the process is hard to reverse.

All of which requires enablers. As the Panama Papers revealed, the London law firm Child & Child assisted the daughters of the president of Azerbaijan in a way that, according to the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal, “led to a risk of large amounts of money being laundered”.

In the Channel 4 documentary From Russia With Cash, reporters posing as Russian buyers approached London estate agents asking to invest in properties with what they made clear were ill-gotten gains. The agents were highly obliging, in several cases recommending lawyers who could help the buyers hide their identities.

This was in 2015, and it was hardly a surprise even then that such things could happen. Yet the government’s response has been limited. Unexplained wealth orders, whereby British courts can require their targets to reveal the sources of the money, were introduced in 2017, but the cost of using them against well-lawyered respondents mean that they are rarely issued.

David Cameron promised to shut out “dirty cash” in 2015, and in 2016 the British government promised to introduce a public register of foreign-owned property. Six years later, Boris Johnson is still promising to rush forward such a register. “There is no place for dirty money in the UK,” he recently intoned. “Those backing Putin have been put on notice: there will be nowhere to hide your ill-gotten gains.”

Foreign Secretary Liz Truss has said that she has a “hit list” of oligarchs whose properties will be targeted. The deputy prime minister, Dominic Raab, has suggested that the homes of Russian elites could be handed to Ukrainian refugees. Given that the government has convincingly been accused of dragging its feet, these ministerial statements, until proved otherwise, sound like virtue signalling.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -4  
Sun 6 Mar, 2022 02:40 am
@roger,
Quote:
I don't think he could live with the dishonor of admitting that he couldn't subdue a country like Ukraine.


The US has been ******* with the Ukraine for over a decade now. Even paedo schmucks like Hunter Biden have "jobs" there now.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Sun 6 Mar, 2022 04:24 am
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/Ap1ON48l.jpg

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/E9fwU6tl.jpg
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sun 6 Mar, 2022 05:08 am
HCR wrote:
Russia’s war on Ukraine continues.

If the broader patterns of war apply, Russian president Vladimir Putin is making the war as senselessly brutal as possible, likely hoping to force Ukraine to give in quickly before global sanctions completely crush Russia and the return of warm weather eases Europe’s need for Russian oil and gas.

Russian shelling has created a humanitarian crisis in urban areas, and last night, a brief ceasefire designed to let residents of Mariupol and Volnovakha escape the cities through “humanitarian corridors” broke down as Russian troops resumed firing, forcing the people back to shelter. This morning, Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky spoke to more than 280 members of the U.S. Congress to describe Ukraine’s “urgent need” for more support, both military and humanitarian.

Today, Putin said that the continued resistance of President Zelensky and his government threatens Ukraine’s existence. He also said that the sanctions imposed against Russia, Russian companies, Russian oligarchs and their families, and himself by the global alliance arrayed against him are “akin to a declaration of war.” (Remember, saying things doesn’t make them so; words are often a posture.)

The global economic pressure on Russia and the Russian oligarchs is already crushing the Russian economy—today Mastercard and Visa suspended operations in the country—while other countries’ refusal to sell airplane parts, for example, will soon render Russian planes useless, a major crisis for a country the size of Russia. Meanwhile, support is pouring into Ukraine: aside from the military support coming, yesterday the World Bank said it was preparing ways to transfer immediate financial support.

There are suggestions, too, among those who study military strategy that the Russian invasion has been far weaker than they expected. The Russian forces on paper are significantly stronger than those of Ukraine, and by now they should have established control of the airspace. Ground forces are also not moving as efficiently as it seems they should be.

Today, Phillips P. O’Brien, Professor of Strategic Studies at University of St Andrews, outlined how the Russian military, so impressive on paper, might in fact have continued the terrible logistics problems of the Soviet Union. On the ground, they appear to have too few trucks, too little tire maintenance, out-of-date food, and too little fuel. In the air, they are showing signs that they cannot plan or execute complicated maneuvers, in which they have had little practice.

Russia expert Tom Nichols appeared to agree, tweeting: “Ukrainian resistance has been amazing, but I am astonished—despite already low expectations—at how utter Russian military incompetence has made a giant clusterf**k out of an invasion against a much weaker neighbor.”

Meanwhile, Russians are now aware that they are at war—something that Putin had apparently hidden at first—and a number are protesting. The government has cracked down on critics, and rumors are flying that Putin is about to declare martial law. It appears he is already turning to mercenaries to fight his war. The U.S. government has urged all Americans to leave Russia.

And so, time is a key factor in this war: will Russian forces pound Ukraine into submission before their own country can no longer support a war effort?

Closer to home, the Russian war on Ukraine has created a crisis for the Republican Party here in the U.S.

Aaron Blake of the Washington Post reported on Thursday that after Trump won the 2016 election and we learned that Russia had interfered to help him, Republicans’ approval of Putin jumped from about 14% to 37%.

In the Des Moines Register today, columnist Rekha Basu explained how the American right then swung behind Putin because they saw him as a moral crusader, defending religion and “traditional values,” from modern secularism and “decadence,” using a strong hand to silence those who would, for example, defend LGBTQ rights.

Now, popular support has swung strongly against the Russian leader—even among Republicans, 61% of whom now strongly dislike the man. This is widening the split in the Republican Party between Trump supporters and those who would like to move the party away from the former president.

In a tweet today, Representative Liz Cheney (R-WY) referred to the “Putin wing” of the Republican Party when she shared a video clip of Douglas Macgregor, whom Trump nominated for ambassador to Germany and then appointed as senior advisor to the Secretary of Defense, telling a Fox News Channel host that Russian forces have been “too gentle” and “I don’t see anything heroic” about Zelensky.

Possibly eager to show their participation in Ukraine’s defense, when Zelensky spoke to Congress this morning, two Republican senators—Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Steve Daines (R-MT)—shared screenshots of his Zoom call while it was going on, despite the explicit request of Ukraine’s ambassador not to share details of the meeting until it was over, out of concern for Zelensky’s safety.

In an appearance on Newsmax, Trump’s secretary of state John Bolton pushed back when the host suggested that the Trump administration was “pretty tough on Russia, in a lot of ways.” Bolton said that Trump “barely knew where Ukraine was” and repeatedly complained about Russian sanctions. Bolton said Trump should have sanctioned the Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Russia and Germany, rather than letting it proceed, and concluded: “It’s just not accurate to say that Trump's behavior somehow deterred the Russians.”

Still, the sudden attempt of the Republicans to rewrite history cannot erase the fact that every Republican in the House of Representatives voted against impeaching Trump when he withheld $391 million in aid for Ukraine that Congress had appropriated, offering to release it only on the condition that President Zelensky announced an investigation into Hunter Biden. That is, they were willing to look the other way as Trump weakened Ukraine in an attempt to rig the 2020 election by creating a scandal he hoped would sink his chief opponent.

Democrats supported impeachment, though, and the case went to the Senate to be tried. And there, every single Republican senator except Senator Mitt Romney (R-UT), who voted to convict him for abuse of power, acquitted Trump of the charges stemming from his attempt to hamstring Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression.

substack
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 6 Mar, 2022 06:47 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60576443


No-fly zone: What it means and why the West won't act

0 Replies
 
 

 
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