18
   

Putin's war

 
 
hightor
 
  4  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 05:33 am
John Bolton: Trump Is a Putin-Loving Moron Who Thought Finland Was Part of Russia

The former national security adviser also said Tuesday that Trump complained about all the sanctions his administration put on Russia, and did nothing to deter Putin from invading Ukraine.

Quote:
Donald Trump has devoted much of his last week to rewriting history when it comes to his relationship with Russia, Ukraine, and NATO. Among other things, the former president has claimed that Vladimir Putin “never would have” invaded Ukraine on his watch; that there “would be no NATO” if it wasn‘t for him; and that he generously armed Ukraine “when the previous administration was sending blankets.” These statements, of course, are lies. When it comes to NATO, Trump had to be convinced not to destroy the organization. With regard to Ukraine, the former president conveniently leaves out the part about how he famously tried to extort the country and make U.S. aid conditional on President Volodymyr Zelenskyy agreeing to dig up dirt on Joe Biden.

As for the idea that Trump was so tough on Russia that Putin feared him, and wouldn’t have dared to attack Ukraine if the 45th president had gotten a second term, well, please enjoy this exchange between former Trump administration official John Bolton and Newsmax on Tuesday morning:

Newsmax: There is something to be said though, about the simple fact that there was not aggression during the four years. I mean, you were part of that administration as well, and there was not aggression from Russia and they waited him out, it seems, and made a move. I mean, we have a list of things, the Brookings Institution says that the “Trump administration implemented 52 policy actions against Russia,” was pretty tough on Russia in a lot of ways. Forcing NATO members to pay up; as we know, sanctioning Nord Stream 2; oligarchs close to Putin were sanctioned; selling anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, so arming Ukraine; withdrawing from the INF treaty; and expelling Russian officers from this country as well. In 2018, he looked NATO members in the eye and talked about the reliance on Russian energy by Europe and how horrible that was. I mean, he took a very tough stance against Russia. I’m surprised you don’t think that he would’ve handled this better than Joe Biden.

Bolton: No, he did not. He did not. We didn’t sanction Nord Stream 2…we should have, we should have brought the project to an end. We did impose sanctions on Russian oligarchs and several others because of their sales of S-400 antiaircraft systems to other countries. But in almost every case, the sanctions were imposed with Trump complaining about it saying we were being too hard. The fact is that he barely knew where Ukraine was. He once asked John Kelly, his second chief of staff, if Finland were a part of Russia. It is just not accurate to say that Trump’s behavior somehow deterred the Russians. I think the evidence is that Russia didn’t feel that their military was ready.


For those of you who prefer CliffsNotes, the takeaways here are that:

(1) Any sanctions that were placed on Russians during Trump‘s time in office were in spite of Trump, who thought they were too mean

(2) Russia didn’t not invade Ukraine while Trump was in office because it was scared of him but because it wasn’t ready—meaning it might very well have done so in Trump’s second term

(3) Trump is a village idiot who couldn‘t find Ukraine on a map. (Which reminds us of the time his secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, was said to have lashed out at a veteran reporter for daring to ask a question about the country amidst the first impeachment trial, suggested that she couldn’t find Ukraine on a map and then had his staff bring one in so she could prove it. Which she did, because she’s smarter than your average 45th president.)

(4) Trump—and here we’re just going to quote Bolton because it bears repeating—once asked “if Finland were a part of Russia.”

But hey, if Trump literally not knowing that Finland is its own country doesn’t drive home the point that he would have let Putin take Ukraine no questions asked, please note that just this past weekend, he was praising Putin’s savvy and calling the U.S. a “stupid country.” And when he was in office?

• Trump publicly sided with Putin over his own intelligence agencies re: 2016 election meddling;
• Trump wanted Ukraine investigated for alleged election meddling, a line straight out of the Kremlin’s playbook;
• Trump talked to Putin—who no doubt struggled to catch his breath from laughing—about forming a “cybersecurity unit” with Russia to combat “election hacking” (!);
• Trump pressed for Russia to be let back in an expanded G7, despite being kicked out for annexing Crimea;
• Trump excused killings by Putin, saying the U.S. is just as bad;
• Trump leaked classified information from another country to Russia;
• Trump allowed Russia to expand its influence in Syria;
• Trump bizarrely defended the Soviet Union’s 1979 invasion of Afghanistan, saying Russia was “right to be there,” a statement the Wall Street Journal editorial board responded to by writing: “We cannot recall a more absurd misstatement of history by an American President.”

levin
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 07:59 am
@coluber2001,
This also shows the depths of Putin's miscalculation. If he had waited ten years, Germany would have been so intertwined with Russia and China that breaking away would have been too painful to be considered. Of course Putin is getting long in the tooth and I'm sure he thought he needed to pull the trigger sooner than later, but the popularly supported realignment in Germany shows the depths of Putin's error here.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:01 am
Pretty tragic images this morning. Russia is just going to level cities at this point. Of course the rank and file will follow orders but I wonder what the Russian troops are thinking at this point.
Albuquerque
 
  -1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:07 am
@engineer,
...yeah, it looks like the fight for Uranian oil and gas is going to take a long time, it reminds me of Angola way back!
hightor
 
  4  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:10 am
@engineer,
So unnecessary. The dead and injured civilians, the destruction of homes and civil infrastructure, the unexploded munitions maiming and killing people in years to come, the loss of wildlife and devastation of nature. Yup, it's tragic.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:17 am
@hightor,
Russian military forces are apparently using vacuum bombs in Ukraine in addition to cluster munitions. Such thermobaric weapons are among the worst destruction machines of all.
engineer
 
  4  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:20 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I read this today.

Quote:
To think Russia would not resort to terror campaigns to achieve its war aims is to ignore the example of Chechnya and also of Russia’s intervention in Syria. There, many at first thought that Russian bomb and missile strikes on civilian infrastructure including hospitals, schools and water treatment plants were the result of incompetence or error. They only gradually realised that this was in fact deliberate policy – bringing the conflict to an end as rapidly as possible by ensuring that civilian support for resistance was crushed.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/02/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-medieval-levels-of-brutality
engineer
 
  5  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:25 am
@Albuquerque,
Albuquerque wrote:

...yeah, it looks like the fight for Uranian oil and gas is going to take a long time, it reminds me of Angola way back!

Ukraine's major export is food. Do you mean sunflower oil?
Albuquerque
 
  -2  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:26 am
@engineer,
Are you joking I know about the wheat but seriously are you joking???
Glennn
 
  -3  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:27 am
@engineer,
Sounds like they took a page right out of the U.S. playbook in Iraq.
engineer
 
  6  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:32 am
@Glennn,
Sounds like you whole heartedly approve.
Albuquerque
 
  -2  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:33 am
@Glennn,
Check at minute 12.30...some guys around really believe we are arming them in the name of Democracy...hell we just got back from Afghanistan...

Glennn
 
  -3  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:33 am
@engineer,
Quote:
Sounds like you whole heartedly approve.

Of what the U.S. did to Iraqi children? No, that was horrible. How could you think that I approve of such atrocities?
engineer
 
  4  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:34 am
@Albuquerque,
I provided you a link if you are really interested.

Quote:
What does Ukraine export?
In 2019 Ukraine ranked number 51 in the world in terms of total export value, but it is truly a world leader in terms of agricultural exports. Ukraine produces 18% of the world’s sunflower seed, safflower or cottonseed oil exports; 13% of corn production; 12% of global barley exports; and 8% of wheat and meslin.

In absolute figures, corn is the largest Ukrainian export market and brings in a massive $4.77 billion every year. Seed oils ($3.75bn), iron ore ($3.36bn) and wheat ($3.11bn) are also major export markets for Ukraine.

The Ukrainian sunflower oil export market is particularly vital to global trade and it makes up more than half of total worldwide exports every year.

Not only does it produce a lot but it is responsible for the vast majority of crop imports for many nations. China buys more corn from Ukraine than from any other country and many nations in southeast Asia are hugely reliant on Ukrainian crops to feed their populations.
engineer
 
  3  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:35 am
@Glennn,
Because you just justified the Russian actions based on it. For someone so horrified you seem completely fine now.
Albuquerque
 
  -3  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:38 am
@engineer,
Jesus they have a **** ton of gas and oil on the sea that was why Russians took Crimea! Ukraine would indeed frack up Russia for good if it got westernized and I am not just talking about that huge prairie they have, check that damned video I posted before!
engineer
 
  5  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:39 am
@Albuquerque,
Here is another link for you: https://www.worldometers.info/oil/ukraine-oil/

Ukraine is a net oil importer, no exports.
Albuquerque
 
  -2  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:43 am
@engineer,
Ukraine didn't had the means to extract what they found along the sea on Crimea...of course we are aiming to give them the tech...that is the reason why you have Brit stingers against Russian tanks and a long asymmetric war ahead instead of a quick one. Ukrainian people be damned this is about money as usual!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:45 am
@engineer,
You're not going to persuade someone who gets their information from RT. That party has been banging the drum for Putin since the off.

I don't remember a lot of opposition to the war in Iraq at the time. Dubya got returned with an undisputable majority, unlike the first time he was elected, which would indicate that most Americans did approve of the illegal war at the time.

And I'm fairly certain those most vocal about the Iraqi war right now voted Dubya in for a second term.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  -4  
Wed 2 Mar, 2022 08:46 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
Check at minute 12.30...some guys around really believe we are arming them in the name of Democracy

That's because they believe that mindless patriotism and obedience to authority is what makes them really strong and smart.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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