Ancient Footprints in the Sand

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Fossil footprints show humans in North America more than 21,000 years ago
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/fossil-footprints-show-humans-north-america-21000-years-ago-rcna2169

Science is tracing our origins back to the beginning of humanity through footprints and burial sites. The human presence is sandwiched between layers of prehistoric mammals and ancient plant life.

The seed of our existence seems to precede earliest estimations opening a door into the past that reveals a trail of widespread human activity across the globe.

This is a discussion thread to post these remarkable finds that are being unearthed and verified through modern dating techniques and fossil records.

Please post anything of interest even remotely relating to this topic here.

Thanks

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@TheCobbler,

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Fossil footprints show humans in North America more than 21,000 years ago

Human footprints, or proto-human footprints?

One of the worst tribulations that the earth has suffered in recent times occurred some 75,000 years ago with the Toba super eruption, which was a super volcanic eruption that occurred sometime between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at Lake Toba (Sumatra Indonesia). It is recognised as one of earth’s largest eruptions.

Thousands of cubic kilometres of material would have been blasted out into the stratosphere blocking out the light all over the world, turning the sun and moon into huge blood red orbs and causing the earth’s temperature to drop many, many degrees, and it would possibly have been a thousand years, before rainbows could form in our atmosphere again.

The related catastrophe theory holds that this event plunged the planet into a 6 to 10 year volcanic winter and possibly an additional 1,000 year cooling episode. This change in temperature resulted in the world’s proto-human population being reduced to 10,000 or even a mere 1,000 breeding pairs, creating a bottleneck in human evolution.

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@The Anointed,

Later work discredits Yost's and others "bottlneck "theory . Palynology work from lakes Tanganyika and Malawi and about Gibralter reveal that there was no real credible evidence of any climatic changs to th "nuclear winter" side.
It was a good story but lik anything , it requires primary evidence and supporting evidence to the primary evidence.

Yost just was looking for somthing sensational (IMHO)

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@TheCobbler,

Its kinda neat to get this evidence and presnt it to the "Folsom First" crowd. The geologists involved in the White Sands work have presented som pretty strong evidence in that they were able to "brackst the dating" from zircons in ash beds abovve and below these footprints. That kind of dating is pretty strong but will be rerun several dozn tims from these beds and other beds that bracket and intersect the white sands ash layrs.

Science can b a real pain in the ass when it gts imposing rules of QA. (Unlike other worldviews that merely pick and choose a story and belive in it without proof)

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@farmerman,

However I am still not buying the story without connective context> REASON::--The foo tprints dont appear real to me. They look alot like the Paluxey River shales that were found to have human "footprints" carved within a series of Hadrosaurian prints to try to sell a Creationist tory that humans lived among dinosaurs ,(and would "prove" that Creation stories were NOT Bullshit)

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@farmerman,

I don't listen to creationists and their farcical rationale.

There are other sites in the Americas that seem to date back to that time also.

...and the fact that the article said "trails" of footprints indicates they were not just abjectly strewn like river shale might be.

Creationists are grasping at straws...

Considering at the time it was a lush ecosystem it would have been a great place for tribal occupation.

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@TheCobbler,

m most impressed at the dating . They had these prints for almost 30 years but held off until more dating techniques and strata were applied.
Creationists nd IDers are fun.

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@farmerman,

The other sites, like Cactus Ridge and Meadowcroft still couldn't present anything in dating except by relative techniques lik Flourine ion dating 9non-radiometric)(They compare the relative abundance of flouro apatite v new(ish) Ca apatite, any place there was a cave or rockshelter the F trick wa applied and the"Solutrean First" hypothesis was invoked, yet noone could ever show any non Native haplogroups suggesting solutreans

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@farmerman,

The claim is 21,000 years ago, homo sapiens go back between 100 - 300 thousand years depending on how you define homo sapiens.

If such footprints are genuine they would fit in with the timescale, I don't see what creationists have to do with it.

We're not talking about human and dinosaur footprints together, but something that allegedly happened 79,000 years after the first modern humans walked on the planet.

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@izzythepush,

come on over and live in the usa a bit. The Creationist IDers use anything that hlps their side. YECs claim that dinosaurs AND humans co-resided within a hort expanse that included our Pleistocen. REMEMBER ;Were number ONE when it comes to "studied idiocy". Read some of the posts in ome other forums.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Yost just was looking for somthing sensational (IMHO)

And that's all it is old mate; "YOUR UNEDUCATED OPINION" on this subject.

You put yourself over as being an expert in every field, but anyone who tries to read your (At times) unreadable rubbish, knows better.

For every scientific finding, there is always someone who attempts to deny it, but their evidence is more than often, weaker than the evidence put forward to support the original theory .

I hope you're still around when Yellow-Stone blows, old mate .

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@farmerman,

I don't live in the USA.

Creationists and their ilk have little bearing outside the USA, the USA is not the World.

If you dismiss something, that is clearly possible if not probable, out of hand because of how certain individuals will treat it, you're behaving like those you criticise.

Cobbler isn't some religious id nutjob, what he writes should be given some consideration.

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These footprints only push the known (widely accepted) dating of human occupation in the Americas back a few thousand years.

Meadowcroft Rockshelter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadowcroft_Rockshelter

Ancient Nez Perce village site yields oldest date of human habitation in North America
https://www.wallowanezperce.org/news/2019/9/30/ancient-nez-perce-village-site-yields-oldest-date-of-human-habitation-in-north-america

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@TheCobbler,

I have no iea what the hell Izzie is even talking about.If Ive somehow come across as smarmy I did not intend so. My dealings with the White Sands site come from experience at Sandia Labs.
Sometimes Izzie and I are separated by a common language and either he or I will appear to be offended. I actually joined this onversation because I was interested in your take on this.
ah well, communication on the internet is often mis taken as criticism when none was even in the communicants mind.

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@The Anointed,

Now you are just a troll . Ive actually orked the sites using geophysics at White Sands. So I dont think my trying to communicate with you ill offer anything at all.

I am curious though, where in my communication do I come off as rude or as a mockery master as you often do??

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@TheCobbler,

Ima professional keptic >my feelings about Meadowcroft g, are based upon a stuied rejection of the C14 dates because the site is very near the coal dust "reserves" and unless sampling removes ALL the contaminating sources of C12/C13/C14 its possible for really ancient C to add some spurious dates that make much of th Meadowcroft data to be artificially too old.
The White sands site is much more reasonable bcause it brackets the footprints btwen younger and older ASH deposits. So theyve gotten C14 as well as Ar/Ar and K/Ar.
I a part of an arlir gophysical experiment at WS where 3-d GPR was able to cleanly define the ash flow deposits without resorting to any destructive testing.

as i said earlier, i like the radiometric techniques, i just dont like the looks of the footprints, they look too ,manufactured.

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@The Anointed,

Hey instein you are criticizing me for having worked as a field geochemist an geologist for over 43 yers. If I wouldnt be busy very day id be a tired old fart like you who gets all my knowledge from reading the internet. Like any profession, "practice" means just that. ITS EXPERIENCE AND TRAINING. I can confess to 43 years of work in the fields that you seem to doubt me on. I G.A.S. about what you have to say becaue Ive read most of your crap on "YOUR UNDERSTANDING " of geology and trust me, it aint worth a pinch of spit.

I wa talking to Cobblr who was providing us with som intresting information in a subject I have an interest in.

If ya notice, I consier my expertise as an inch wide an a mil deep. My knowledge may be deep in this on area but I am impressed and lern subjects about hih I have little knowledge about .UNLIKE YOU who feels a certain knowledge and expertise in everything.
Grow up and have fun discussing subjcts without this incessant need to be a practicing schmuck .

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What farmerman's saying makes sense. Sooner or later (probably later) there will be a settled consensus and we just have to wait.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Now you are just a troll
Quote:

I don't know about that old mate. I was the first to respond to this thread started by ‘THE COBBLER’ it’s you who followed me, revealing that you are the freakin troll.

Quote:
I am curious though, where in my communication do I come off as rude or as a mockery master as you often do??

O plllease, don't force me to go back through your earlier filthy foul mouthed, foul language posts directed at me. You sowed everything that you have received young fellow.

There are scientific groups who believe that the Clovis culture originated in the Old World and was introduced by the first Homo sapiens to migrate from Siberia into Alaska and then south through an ice-free corridor into what is today called America.

While others tend to believe that the Clovis culture actually evolved in the New World from their oldest known primate-like mammal ancestors, the Plesiadapis, which came from North America.

Then there are those who believe from the supposed evidence found in the Meadowcroft Rockshelter. that there were proto-human settlements prior to the supposed earlier Clovis culture.

None can prove conclusively that their particular belief is correct, and so, until one can, you can simply take your pick as to which hypotheses you choose to accept.

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@The Anointed,

nowhere did I respond to you inCOBBLER"S THREAD until you started on me. I was directing my entire post to Cobbler. These thrads arent about YOU , they are about subjects .I only respond first to th subject. Yep that still makes you the troll.

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