Speaking of unconditional love...

Yes, but you're talking about normal people...

I'm talking about psycho people. If one of your daughters got in with the wrong crowd and at 15 started smoking, then doing weed and drinking, then started robbing stores, breaking and entering, then graduated to harming people, threatening them, using a gun and winding up in prison time and again ... no matter what you did or said ... it might be a different story.

Look, I have two law-abiding, professional working children who own their own homes, are married and have good lives. I'm not talking about these kinds of kids - I'm talking about the ones that walk their own walk in a dangerous, aggressive fashion in such a way that you can't even imagine giving birth to them.

Your older one was still a 'toddler' or whatever they call that age group now. She's not responsible for how she deals or dealt with situations because she's only 4... but if she were 14 and used a knife on your younger one... unconditional or no? lol tough question, but there are people out there like that.

I would still love her,,I would have her locked up and get professional help but still love her.

Someone psycho has an illness and needs help.

Granted I would not allow her near anyone so she could not harm anyone but wouldn't mean I could not love her.

Psychopathic murderers don't arise out of a vacuum, they came out of an extremely dysfunctional family, to say the least. It's hard to believe that a psychopathic killer had a loving family in the first place.

I disagree. I think you're born who you are and all the love in the world can't prevent you from being that. Take FAS kids, for example. Yes, there was an influence in utero, but the family life can have little to no impact on their behaviour. How is psychopathy any different?

I actually think it is a combination....

Many child abusers were abused when they were young ... It is how they learned life is so they mirror what their experience was.

I also think that someone who might not tend to be caring .... Learns caring through a loving home

The example of my daughter if instead of talking with her and teaching her it hurts her sister when she scratches her and is wrong....I encourage this behavior and say yeah that screaming drive me crazy I'd have scratched her too! And kept encouraging this sort of behavior she would learn to get her way is to strike out at soneone.

There are some things a loving home can help with raising kids and there are some things that you are born with...

My other daughter has extreme anxiety ... Her sister is pretty much the opposite .... So it appears this is more obtained in her makeup...it doesn't mean she has to live with anxiety and panic attacks her whole life...she has gotten help and now knows how to manage this.

So just because someone's DNA makes them off kilter .. With the proper help...also known as a caring family that recognizes this...many of these can be overcome.

Forgive the long post -

My nephew and I are not communicating now for about 1 1/2 years.

My husband and I took custody of him when he was eight years old. He was my brothers son and he and the boys mother never married. The mother was schizophrenic and my brother was diagnosed bipolar. Both were alcoholics. She had been in the social services system for sometime because she would leave the baby alone. They were in another state. So I get this call when he is about five years old that he exists. I travel to another state and see him. He is a darling little boy very bright. He then goes into foster care, taken away from his mother. My brother is an alcoholic mess and lives only two blocks away but never goes and sees him. When he is seven my brother calls me and tells me he’s going out for adoption because that state law says that if the child is in foster care for three years they must be put up for adoption. So my husband and I began the process of taking custody of the boy.

One complication was that he was 1/2 Native American so the tribe got involved and it took nine months for them to do an investigation and they decided to back off on overseeing the custody case. So he came to live with us. We had three children who were out of the house at that time so we took this eight year old boy in. It really changed our lives, we were back with little league, school, etc and all the things that go with raising a young kid.

He had his issues especially challenging me , the only woman in the home. He had never lived with a man. ( lone mother and foster mother) My husband was a quiet man and was a quiet strength in the home. I could not have done this without him.

We took him to three different counselors. He got depressed when he was 15 and was trying to deal with abandonment issues with his mother and dad. Took a little time before he could understand all the dynamics of the mental illness plus the substance-abuse that his parents had. I kept telling him that they made sure that he was in a safe place because they weren’t able to take care of him. A therapist told me that he had co- morbid issues and that his bonding relationship with us would be probably be “superficial.”

He is now 30. He’s been married for a year and a half. He never let me know that he was at that stage in his life, plus he did not let me know he was eloping. ( Yet, the girls mother and sister attended the wedding held in another state) I had to find out from other relatives. I was heartbroken that he chose to get married and not at least tell me. (I would’ve thrown them a party and given him all very large $ gift for him and his wife.) I have sent birthday and Christmas cards, but no response back.

Bottom line: I feel he gave me the message that he doesn’t want me in his life - so I heard it - loud and clear - and that’s where I am.

Thank goodness I have three other children with 5 grandchildren and they are all involved with me in a healthy way.

So, yes, each child is different and you never know how a relationship will turn out.

That's very sad, Punkey. I'm glad you have other family.

That must have been a hard story to tell.

Thanks for the responses. I haven’t been able to express my continued hurt and anger much.

I guess I should not have been surprised. Things are pretty entrenched in a child by age 8, issues like trusting that adults will take care of you or not let you down. He just was never able to accept that from us or be able to give back much.

Most of my heartache comes because my husband died 12 years ago and he would have been perplexed and hurt by how this young man left us out of his special day.