Lowering or Raising Standards

Who am I that I should have the ability to set or impose any sort of standards on everyone else out there? When was the responsibility passed on to me to instill self-esteem in others?

Whose standards should we all be living by? Your's? Mine?

There is a difference between setting a personal standard and adhering to it and forcing others to live up to that standard. You can certinaly do the 1st (and "lead by example") but, IMO, most people would tell you that you have no authority or right to the latter.

I am talking about the basic common courtesies. Respect for each other. Teach your children right from wrong. If not our responsibility, then who's?

If you raise a child up neglecting that child and telling him he/she will be nothing, then likely you are right. But, if you raise that child with love and discipline and a sense of self-worth, then you have a productive member of society with something to pass on.

What exactly is the question?

Why does it seem as though instead of people standing up and saying, "hey, that's not right" anymore, it seems we are lowering our standards. How do we stop it?

in my opinion its all up to the Parents...

Today its all lack of parental guidance and education.
Its that simple.

That is the $64,000 question right there.

Kiwi,

I am right with you there. I remember never even thinking of sassing my mom. She grounded me once and I told her I didn't want to live at home anymore. Well, she packed up my stuff and took me to Child Services and told them, "She doesn't want to live at home anymore!" And she left! Man, you did not call her bluff!

Still don't. I know it has to be hard on parents because probably both have to work, but something has to be done. Our kids are killing each other now and their parents! How do you get control of that again?

You spank them now and they call the cops. So, what do you do?

Today we live by our means...our parents managed to live on one income
and Mum was the stay at home mother baking and planting good old veges! and making us decent lunches for school, today we seem to be inconvenienced or maybe its just apathy, so we take the easy road and go to the supermarket and buy a bag of beans, peas etc, we give our kids money to buy their lunch and if we dont 'feel' like cooking we opt for take aways!......we are too busy to notice that our kids seem to spend most of their own time on X-Boxes etc and gawking at TV......
I look around and see kids having kids and their young lives is the welfare system....they know no better, and who's fault is that?

As for discipline I say there is nothing wrong with a smack, but there are also other ways of disciplining children as well.
...yes I certainly say that its the parents fault.

I cant have an opinion on kids killing kids, as we dont realy have that problem here in NZ a murder here still makes the front page, it is also illegal to own any hand gun and we have to be licenced to own a hunting rifle or shot gun...our problem here with the young is that they are drinking and driving and killing themselves on the roads...

Is it that we just need to give them something else to do? I see these kids in gangs. I see kids having kids. And then, here in the states they have this show called America's Most Talented Kids. Well, I don't think we need another American Idol Show, but these are kids, 6 - 16 that have talent, values, morals, and are actually looking to be something when they grow up.

I know there are still families out there where both parents work and yet the children are respectful, obedient to their parents, helped around the house, and pulled their pants up! Would somebody please tell me what it is about wearing your pants down around their knees?

They have on these new pants but the bottoms of the legs are all tattered and torn. I can't speak for other parts of the country but around here, it's absolutely embarrassing. I remember when I couldn't walk out of the house with lipstick. And no dates until I was 16. Now, I have no idea how old these kids out there are! I remember when I wanted to be grown up too but not quite that much.

There has got to be something that can be done to help these kids find a better path. They gravitate to gangs because they feel like they belong. They need to feel like they belong at home at the dinner table. It's so sad to see this happening. Our families are supposed to be the core of our country.

I just keep hearing it's not our responsibility, we can't put restrictions on people, etc. That's what's wrong with things now, we stopped standing up for what's right and started going with the flow.

I started this thread because I was in another one where I was trying to just state what I believed and no matter what, a couple of people kept throwing it back out as so what, go with the flow, etc. That's how we got in this mess!

I totaly agree with you...and thats why some of todays kids are like that if thats the attitude they are shown by their parents.
Yes we have the boxer shorts hanging out the back of oversized pants and I laugh every time I see it....its the 'Fashion'
We have gangs here and young Maori boys join up because usualy the father or a cousin is in the gang and again these kids dont know any different...they think its cool, when it is not.

But what do we do about it? I mean I know we can't change the world but if we do nothing then nothing changes.

I, myself, am not above telling some kid sitting in his car at the gas station with music so loud and so much bass the windows are rattling that he might not care about his ears, but I sure care about mine!

But, I was brought up that way. I run a cat shelter and I have some kids that help me with it. They are polite, kind, gentle girls and they have rules they know they have to follow at home. I can only imagine how hard it is for the children that do have rules. The peer pressure must be terrible on them. I just think there has to be a meshing of the good and bad. It's never going to be all good and it's never going to be all bad. But, you'd sure think there was a way to slow it down.

New Zealand sounds so cool! Do you like it there? You said people don't have guns or they had to have them registered? Sounds like you might have a better answer to what we're doing. You can get one on any street corner here, as well as any kind of drug. Heck, you can do the same thing on the internet.

I worked in word processing at an insurance office. We would get so angry because if one person was acting up or doing something wrong and effecting everyone, they wouldn't just go to that person and tell them. They called everyone in a meeting and pointed out "a" problem and blah, blah, blah. Morale went down so fast. No one felt like they could trust the "authorities" to do anything. I think we need to be more strict on the ones that actually do cause the problems. If a kid brings a gun to school, kick his butt out and make him suffer some consequences of his actions!

I'm not for abusing children at all, but this no consequences thing sucks!

Yes we have a good life here, yet some people dont know how good they have got it, I have travelled extensively and I love coming home to NZ.
But what can we do....I think we can only just try and get back to the old fashioned values...how? maybe it could start in the schools, then maybe the kids could go home and educate some of these parents.
We have schools here in the lower income communities that make sure all the kids have a good wholesome breakfast before they start class.

On the issue of guns, I know the Government here, will never allow hand guns into the community and I think all NZ'ers would whole heartedly agree, and I cringe when I hear people go on thats its not the guns who kill, its the people pulling the trigger...um hellooo if there were none so readily available to joe public in the first place, then your kids wouldnt go to school shooting other kids...and what amazes me more is how do these white middle class kids get their hands on these weapons, dont the parents lock them up seperate from the bullets etc.......however I think its too late to implement ban on guns in the USA as you have too many already out there on your streets.

Well, I live in the country and I do have to admit I own a gun. I use mine mostly for chasing dogs away from my cat shelter. However, I do my best to not actually shoot the dogs. The noise the thing makes is enough. But you are right, guns are way out of control. It's not that I don't think people have the right to own them, because I do. I just think there needs to be more restrictions on them. It is too easy to get a gun without identification, etc. It just gets so out of hand sometimes. Our troops over in Iraq fighting for us and our children are over here in the streets killing each other. They think nothing of it. The music they listen to! I'm sorry, but I am appalled at some of the lyrics I have heard coming out of cars driving by churches on Sunday morning. No respect for anyone or anything.

I love the idea about the kids getting a good breakfast. It's a start! It's so sad that a country as rich as ours and there are so many homeless. I just don't understand it. Something just isn't right somewhere.

Whether it be with who we vote for, parents not having time, etc., we all just need to take stock and do what each of us can do.

Can I ask, what government system do you have? Is it like ours? I know nothing about New Zealand law. I love talking with people in other countries to learn things.

Oh, and I love that cat picture you have there! I am a cat person like crazy!

I dont realy get into politics...but we have 2 parties a National Party and a Labour Party...Labour party is in Government now with Helen Clarke our Prime Minister and on each side there are smaller parties who support them, yes you can tell Im up with the play lol. We are too small to have federal Governments etc as the population is only about 4.2 million. We have a high tax system here but we do have a good welfare system and free health care and free education. But we are fierce on our 'no nuke' policy which the Government are toying with changing at the moment, but I would say that would be put to a public referrendum.

...and on that note my dear I have now finished work and must go home

I love the idea of free health care! I think countries that take care of their citizens like that should be commended. I am not much into politics myself, but something like free health care is needed everywhere. This world is way too rich for our children to be hungry and without homes.

It would be nice if there was someone that could come up with something that would work. But, too many opinions, too many cooks in the kitchen I guess.

there will always be too many cooks in someones kitchen....and no one actualy doing any cooking!
The free healthcare is good but if its a major surgical operation we get put on long waiting lists, unless of course its life threatening.
Or you can pay for it and get it done straight away, or pay for insurance and get it done...there are options, at the moment every NZer under 20 years old is getting free meningicocal vaccines which I think is fanatastic.

Hi Kiwi!

Yep, too many cooks. And all we end up with are appetizers and no meal. We seem to find a good starting point but then fall short of coming up with a really good plan.

I love the idea of the shots! That is wonderful! But I hate that you have to wait for surgery. But, what you have I think is far better than what we have.

We are such a rich country in so many ways and lacking in so many. It seems nowadays it's not about finding a spot in the middle. It's more like really good or really bad. Not enough compromise maybe?

Oh, I have noticed something that kind of fascinates me. I have been poking around some of these forums looking at different topics. It seems the real controversial topics have the most visits. The ones that aren't controversial don't have many visitors. Why does everyone care more about being part of the problem instead of the solution?

I would like to think most people on here are genuine enough to think they are knowledgeable in those certain popular topics or others may find it a bit more exciting than some topics, I myself do visit some others when I get bored but thats just me. I have found that some answers are just not helpful at all, but however in saying that they may also be informative to others.
I feel finding one solution to solve a certain issue will never be agreeable to all....and thats where the problem lies.

Boy did you hit that nail on the head! Because no one can decide what the "right right" thing is.

Then, of course, if everyone did the "right right" thing, we wouldn't have a problem. Back to that good or bad, not in the middle.

I do enjoy exchanging thoughts with you.