Is it superficial for a woman to not want to date a guy if he doesn’t pay for the first date?

I am glad you agreed with me on the Older man/younger woman thread. I do feel (in my opinion) that there is an urge to protect women against making their own decisions. That other thread had a good example of this.

I think the use of the term "conquest" in this thread, where a when a man and a woman had sex... instead of an exchange of equals then man was seen as "conquering" the woman is another example.

The need for women to be protected from dirty jokes. That has come up on able2know many times.

There are many other examples where women are portrayed as needed protection even when there is no phyisical danger or power imbalance of any kind.

Do women really need to be protected from sexual jokes?

Here is a question....

Can a woman express her opinion based on her experience and have it be valid without having to back it up with data?

I think she can.

Did you read that? Because I did.

"While single-and-looking men and women report equal levels of dissatisfaction with their dating lives and the ease of finding people to date, women are more likely to say they have had some particularly negative experiences. Most women who are currently single and looking to date (65%) say they have experienced at least one of six harassing behaviors asked about in the survey from someone they were dating or had been on a date with, such as being touched in a way that made them uncomfortable or rumors being spread about their sexual history. This compares with 50% of men who are single and looking. The pattern holds when looking at all women and men, whether they are currently on the dating market or not.

Women are also more likely to see risk – both physical and emotional – when it comes to dating. When those who say dating has become harder for most people in the last 10 years are asked to describe in their own words why they think this is the case, women are twice as likely as men to cite increased risk. For their part, men are more likely than women to say technology is a reason dating has gotten harder. Overall, 47% of Americans say dating is now harder than it was 10 years ago, while 19% say it’s easier and 33% say it’s about the same?"

There's obviously a disconnect - women say risk, men say technology. LOL

I've no doubt, max, that you're a great date whether you buy the dinner or go dutch. But women are usually smaller, lighter, less inclined to violence or defending themselves, and often have other concerns to think about.

And the MeToo movement is recent - this article is about the last 10 years. Women have just become more empowered and some men (and women) don't know what to do about it. All the previous stereotypes have gone out the window. "Oh... this is our third date so I should get lucky" just doesn't work anymore. Men need to catch up.

And I do feel sorry for them (men) because, generally speaking, they're not good at that. So men and women are going to suffer until they start to get it.

Good Mame!

So we agree. You are making my point for me. I would expect my "adversary" to be more adversarial.

Speaking from my experience (take it as you will). I am in a monogamous relationship now, but have done a fair amount of dating fairly recently.

I do not see women as being empowered by modern culture when it comes to dating. It is very rare for a woman to take initiative in any way in dating. It is certainly rare for a woman to inititiate the first time having sex. It is very common to hear single women complaining about how few dates they are getting.

Your experience may be different (I am not sure if you have any recent experience dating). Most single people will agree that the culture is broken when it comes to dating.

No. This is what you said, "There are quite a few polls saying that most men are uncomfortable being alone with women at work, and that dating has become more difficult since the #MeToo movement."

I didn't see that in there.

Look. Man up and treat women as people and nobody would have a bloody problem. Just talk one-on-one - that works best. Not wondering if she's going to put out after a lobster dinner on the third date.

You're really expert at evasion, max. That's a sign of someone whose argument doesn't hold water.

You and Oralloy are very similar in that you wean out the bits that suit your position and conveniently ignore what doesn't. And you're both stuck in your positions. You really shouldn't be teeheeing and mocking him in that other thread since you could be his twin in some ways.

I don't think things are broken. I think women are more empowered. More than before. And they should be. But then, excuse me, I'm only a woman talking... I should just STFU. I love the attitude of women today, and of men, too. Young men 'get' it. You're probably just too old to see it. Maybe you have cataracts?

I know plenty of young men and women from age 25 to 45 who are relationship-healthy. Young men are aware of what young women want and who they are - more so that any other generation. And do you know why? Because women tell them what's going on for them. And the guys are listening. I think a lot of men have listened over the years, but now it's more apparent that they are. And guys are speaking up more, too, which is a very healthy sign. Good for them!

Why can't you see men and women as equal.

You seem to be obsessed with the gender of who is talking and the gender of who is listening. When I am talking I am 'mansplaining'. The good men you know are presented as "listening to women".

I have questioned what you are saying. But I question anyone. I don't see why you are threatened by this (your "I suppose I should STFU" was rather defensive... don't you think?).

People are people. We should all have a voice, and we should all learn to listen to each other.

Ok, obviously you don't see how you come across. So, end of conversation.

I doubt it. I have been with women like you. The conversation never ends.

(For the humor impaired... in this post I am being intentionally sexist to play into Mame's gender stereotypes, because it strikes me as funny and it kind of makes my point. I dont actually feel this way)

"I don't know what you mean by "mature" relationship."



Obviously.....

This is how you are an asshole. Enough said (dusts hands).

When you said "end of conversation" ... I thought that you meant you wouldn't be responding to me any more. I am glad you changed your mind.

Would you like to define a "mature" relationship for us? Does a one night stand between two adults where both are honest and get what they want from their interaction count?. What about a dom/sub relationship involvinf ropes and one partner pouring hot wax on the other to the delight of both?

I dont think YOU know what you mean with this term. I really want to know if my ongoing relationship with Mame is a mature relationship.

You are out of touch with reality. Both men and women are far less happy than they used to be. Suicide rates have soared.