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# Rabbit vs pig

Wed 30 Sep, 2020 05:33 pm

Below is a thought experiment of philosophy piggy posted elsewhere. Piggy moves it here start this independent thread.

Some astronomic materials said that the visible world is about ** billion light years. Don’t mind the exact number. The question here is: what’s outside the visible world?
A. The visible world is infinite big. This answer is somewhat alike the concept of some ancient people about the ground. “The ground is infinite wide.”
B. Nothing. This answer seems a bit fishy. It might make people wonder if it is an answer.
C. Invisible matter worlds.
D. No one knows. This answer seems a bit lack of spirit of exploration.

If you choose answer C, that means you have the spirit of exploration. And then you will face some questions of physics. The first one is: since the invisible matter is also matter, that means it can emit light too. Why it can’t be seen?
The name of “dark matter” is not fresh now…

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oralloy

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Thu 1 Oct, 2020 12:49 pm
The reason for the edge of visibility is because the universe has a finite age, and light has a finite speed.

Light from those more distant places has not yet had time to reach us.
htam9876

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Thu 1 Oct, 2020 02:25 pm
@oralloy,
What’s outside the “edge”?

The things of “those more distant places” moved faster than light at the beginning of the “bang”?
Below is the abstract from my former thread of “Dark logic”:
“What we can see is not able to move faster than light, so, if something is able to move faster than light, we can't see it. Is this correct in logic? Thank you.”

oralloy

-1
Thu 1 Oct, 2020 09:45 pm
@htam9876,
htam9876 wrote:
What's outside the "edge"?

Assuming you mean the edge of visibility (I know of no other edge), outside the edge is just more ordinary space and matter, no different from the rest of the universe.

If someone is observing from far enough away, we will be outside the edge of their visibility.

htam9876 wrote:
The things of "those more distant places" moved faster than light at the beginning of the "bang"?

No object can move faster than the speed of light within the fabric of the universe.

However, in an expanding universe, the farther locations are from each other, the faster they spread away from one another.

In an expanding universe, locations can spread away from each other faster than the speed of light if they are far enough away from each other.

htam9876 wrote:
Below is the abstract from my former thread of "Dark logic":
"What we can see is not able to move faster than light, so, if something is able to move faster than light, we can't see it. Is this correct in logic? Thank you."

I don't think it is correct. If a photon left an object that was traveling faster than the speed of light, that photon would travel at the speed of light.

If this photon were able to reach us while traveling at the speed of light, we would be able to see the object that was traveling faster than the speed of light.

If an object traveled through our solar system at faster than the speed of light, photons emitted from that object would surely be able to reach us, and we would therefore be able to see this object if we were looking in the right direction.

It should however be remembered that objects cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

There are cases of things that we will never be able to see though. In the case of locations that are spreading away from us faster than the speed of light due to the expansion of the universe, we will never see light emitted from those locations because the distance between them and us always keeps increasing. No matter how far the emitted photons have traveled, they will always have even further to go.
htam9876

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Fri 2 Oct, 2020 01:55 pm
@oralloy,
Actually you choose answer A. "Ordinary" one.
oralloy

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Fri 2 Oct, 2020 05:03 pm
@htam9876,
There is a limit and an edge to the visible universe, because light has a finite speed, and because the universe has a finite age.

There is a certain distance beyond which we cannot see, because light from beyond that distance has not yet had the time to reach us.

But it is true that the universe beyond this limit is ordinary.
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htam9876

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Fri 2 Oct, 2020 07:00 pm
The OP of this thread is “a thought experiment of philosophy”.
The “visible” is a kind of matter. Its meaning is not limited to the ability of observation of human on the Earth or the issue of speed of light.
……………………………..
Why some ancient people considered that “the ground is infinite wide”? They perceived the ground with the idea of 2D space.
……………………………..
Piggy saw an excellent term in another member’s thread: “ultimate intelligence”.

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Albuquerque

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Sat 3 Oct, 2020 06:19 am
Numerical Infinity is a trick you fools...
No new Information, Qualia, and counting plus one counts nothing new even if the fractal repeats forever!

How many times does a function of a fractal needs to repeat to go Infinite? Just one time! As soon as you ascribe that function you got Infinity.

Now and to finish it off once and for good do you really conceive of infinite Qualia without being confronted with everything being infinetly ALIEN to everything else? Losing all mechanical coherence, losing all geometry?
No one would agree with no one else. Images and photons wouldn't match as there would be infinite many different photons with different properties, same goes for chemicals that wouldn't match, molecular geometry wouldn't fit...oh well I am at a loss to make it any more clear than this. Lets give a go, no one would agree with its own thought process if by magic there could be one, from moment to moment and everyone would forget every qualia it experienced infinitly many times.
htam9876

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Sun 4 Oct, 2020 03:20 am
@Albuquerque,
I am not fooling the "numerical infinity". You will see it later.
You seems talking the fractal geometry. It's not the topic here. Piggy will start another thread which will mention it.
(The web speed is very slow now. It's not easy for me to enter a2k now. 拉他江门地方黑恶势力钟永康集团及新会一中九一四班谁谁上来全世界打打靶先啦。当今时代，全世界没有什么人能够值得如此殊荣。呵呵
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htam9876

1
Sun 4 Oct, 2020 01:31 pm
Philosophy of worlds:
There are many worlds: human world, dog world, cat world, pig world, duck world, hen world…oh, there might be a rabbit world too…
Behaviors of things in those worlds are similar/different. They originate from the similar/different spiral genes.
We can’t exclude the possibility that there might be rabbits mix in the human world.
In X4 Theory (primary conception could be found in the thread “Can projective geometry find out its application in physics? ” in the geometry forum):
When |X4| = 2, 3, ...n,...it means similar matter worlds. But they are (MUST BE) invisible.
When X4 = ∞, it means electromagnetic wave/light, but piggy would not refer it to "light" in this context. Details not provided temporarily. That's the material border of cosmos.
If astronomical observations got stable electromagnetic wave stuffing the cosmos/coming in almost the same situation in all directions?
By the way,
"...something is able to move faster than light... " does not mean "...something must move faster than light..."
…………………………………….
A man perceives one cm distance very small, but an ant perhaps perceives it very large. Their conception about space is not the same. X4 in some sense reflects the difference of ability.

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htam9876

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Tue 8 Dec, 2020 03:06 am
Piggy starts this post with an odd assumption:
Assume only a pair of positron (A) and electron (B) existing in this cosmos. If you have a method to flip the positron (A) into an electron, then, the electron (B) will instantaneously flip into a positron. Seems there are many fun things more than light speed c in this cosmos.

The philosophy of “bang”:
When a bomb “bang”, the debris which could move further away from you has the faster primary speed.
Since nobody could find out where’s the center of this cosmos, piggy just guesses it’s in your heart. Then, the galaxy which is further from you has the faster receding speed.
Below is just inference in philosophy:
The galaxy which is far away from you (**billion light years) could has the receding speed of nearly c and perhaps you still can observe it.
The question here is that what’s the receding speed of those galaxies outside your sight?
Albuquerque

1
Tue 8 Dec, 2020 04:45 am
@htam9876,
I can make a quick joke with it.
if those Galaxies are faster than C then they arrived at our Big-Bang!
Yes I know its the space that expands and drags them but what that entails that far away I don't know. Space is not disentangled with matter like Newton used to think. (Don't ask me how or in what form of information/energy)
I sure as hell believe they still entangled with us and everything else.
Have a nice day Piggy!
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