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What happens Post-Trump; Can we win the peace?

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Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 01:03 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
It’s hard to think of anyone worse than Trump.

AOC scares a lot of grown up men, apparently...
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 01:04 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

It’s hard to think of anyone worse than Trump.


Some said that about Barrack Obama, George W Bush, Bill Clinton, George HW Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford.... etc...

It's meaningless.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 01:13 pm
@McGentrix,
Because all of those gave us race riots and a pandemic.

American citizen Paul Whelan serving 16 years hard labour while your president prostrates himself to Putin.

I can see why a lickspittle would want that.

Someone with a backbone would probably wish that America wasn’t the laughing stock of the World, but hey as long as you can suck up who cares?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 01:13 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
For the most part, Izzy, I think the right's depiction of "the horrors of the left" to be total horseshit. There are no horrors of the left.


1. The word "horrors" might be a little strong. I do think there are real dangers to the left having to much power. The issue of free speech is the biggest issue for me. There are many others including the calls for price controls, and due process rights.


I think there is danger in either side of the great divide having too much power. I think the conservative element should be the loyal opposition. Conservatives cannot govern...and they prove that over and over again. They are of the opinion that government (and governing) IS THE PROBLEM.

It isn't.

Quote:
2. I strongly reject the either-or mentality that Izzy is pushing. I don't have to choose a side.


Okay. I don't think he is as much a either/or advocate as you think, but I'll let that be for now. I agree...either/or is not a good starting point.

Quote:
- I hate the Trump administration. I want the ideology behind Trump to lose all credibility.


It already has. I want to see Trump gone...and his influence with a marginal electorate eliminated somehow. (Through voting.)


Quote:
- I am afraid of the left having too much power with their own ideological excesses.


So do I...but not nearly as much as I dread the right having too much power. During my lifetime, the right has abused power more than the left. You may not agree, but that is my experience.

Quote:
There is no contradiction here... in fact, I think in order to win this election, this is the tact the Democratic party has to take.


I am not sure of what tack you want them to take. We may be on the same page...we may not.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 01:14 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

It’s hard to think of anyone worse than Trump.


In my estimation, it is absolutely impossible to think of anyone worse than Trump.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 01:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I think you and I pretty much agree, Frank. I don't know what Izzy's problem is... maybe he agrees with us too.

My fears of the far left notwithstanding, we all agree that Trump has to go.

Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:02 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
In my estimation, it is absolutely impossible to think of anyone worse than Trump.

Isn't that's what some people said about Bush too? And yet Trump may be worse. The next republican president could well be worse than Trump. Never say never...

At this point some 37 percent of voters still support Trump in spite of his disastrous response to COVID. These people are beyond rational discourse. Nobody is going to win them over with good facts and clever arguments. They do not believe in the former, and don't understand the latter.

They are not peaceful. They are not collaborative either. They hate the dems, including centrists like you.

Some of them are going to snap if Trump loses in November and go into their own personal civil war, shooting whoever they see as 'colored' or liberal.

You can't win the peace by working with them, but you can win the peace by defeating them. There's a window of opportunity for that, if that's what you want.



maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:27 pm
@Olivier5,
Trump is an extremely bad president. He is second only to Andrew Jackson (in my opinion) as far as damage done, and second to none as far as incompetence.

Baby Bush is not even in the same league on either count.

There is an every decreasing trend here. Many of us complained about Baby Bush. I actually think Papa Bush was a decent president for a Republican. I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that Trump is historically bad.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:42 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
In my estimation, it is absolutely impossible to think of anyone worse than Trump.


Isn't that's what some people said about Bush too? And yet Trump may be worse. The next republican president could well be worse than Trump. Never say never...

At this point some 37 percent of voters still support Trump in spite of his disastrous response to COVID. These people are beyond rational discourse. Nobody is going to win them over with good facts and clever arguments. They do not believe in the former, and don't understand the latter.

They are not peaceful. They are not collaborative either. They hate the dems, including centrists like you.

Some of them are going to snap if Trump loses in November and go into their own personal civil war, shooting whoever they see as 'colored' or liberal.

You can't win the peace by working with them, but you can win the peace by defeating them. There's a window of opportunity for that, if that's what you want.


Okay...I will change that to "I, personally, cannot think of anyone worse."

As for the "They hate the dems, including centrists like you"...let me say that while there are some positions I take that come closer to conservative values (very few)...many of my positions are to the left of any of the liberals here.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:44 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


Trump is an extremely bad president. He is second only to Andrew Jackson (in my opinion) as far as damage done, and second to none as far as incompetence.

Baby Bush is not even in the same league on either count.

There is an every decreasing trend here. Many of us complained about Baby Bush. I actually think Papa Bush was a decent president for a Republican. I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that Trump is historically bad.





I agree with your comments on both Bush's. I was not a fan of George W. at all when he was in office...but he was a world better than Trump...and I think he has conducted himself as an ex-president in an exemplary fashion. I've gained lots of respect for him.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:46 pm
@maxdancona,
I believe there's a strong possibility the next one will be worse. The American right in on an increasingly fascist trajectory.

Without a serious leftift correction under president Biden, the next rightist POTUS will veer your body politic even further right than it is now. That'd be right into the concentration camps.

People who are afraid to turn left end up turning right all the time...
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:46 pm
@maxdancona,
That’s your absolutist thinking right there, that one either has to agree or disagree with you.

The far right is a real problem. Nazis marching the street, racist murders and organised crime.

The far left is a paper tiger you’ve blown up out of all proportion just to justify your imaginary centrist position.

Is that what we agree on?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
OOPS wrong thread. Oh well, it cannot be said too often ish.
Three WORST U PRESIDENTS, Starting from the worst

James Buchanan
Warren G Harding
Andrew Johnson.

The series of polls that were run up by Quinnepiaq etc all generally agreed, with some numbers off a bit.

Trump, not yet having run a complete regime, has been voted second worst President in our History. At least Pinky has a "runner-up" if not the winner
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:55 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Trump is an extremely bad president. He is second only to Andrew Jackson (in my opinion) as far as damage done, and second to none as far as incompetence.


Your opinion is extremely skewed and you will be hard pressed to name some concrete examples of the "damage done". If you wanted to call him an asshole, I'd be hard pressed to disagree, but he is not a bad President. You guys just don't him or the fact the Hillary was supposed to be unbeatable.

Crying over long spilled milk.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:56 pm
@farmerman,
So was W and Obama and Clinton... yawn.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 02:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
many of my positions are to the left of any of the liberals here.

Fair point. I didn't mean to loathe, just to say that the nutcases hate Nancy Pelosi just as intensely as they hate AOC.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 03:06 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
many of my positions are to the left of any of the liberals here.

Fair point. I didn't mean to loathe, just to say that the nutcases hate Nancy Pelosi just as intensely as they hate AOC.


Yup, they do. Like their idol, the Abomination, they seem to delight in hating women.

Nancy Pelosi and AOC are both strong women. Strong women threaten people like Trump and his supporters.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 03:09 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

OOPS wrong thread. Oh well, it cannot be said too often ish.
Three WORST U PRESIDENTS, Starting from the worst

James Buchanan
Warren G Harding
Andrew Johnson.

The series of polls that were run up by Quinnepiaq etc all generally agreed, with some numbers off a bit.

Trump, not yet having run a complete regime, has been voted second worst President in our History. At least Pinky has a "runner-up" if not the winner


I've never read a bio of Buchanan...but I ought to. Anyone deemed to be a worse president than Trump deserves a look-see!

maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 03:13 pm
@McGentrix,
For the record, I hated Hillary at least as much as you did.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 03:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
His Approach-avoidance syndrome of ineptitude, gave this nation a fine, bright Civil WAr. Im so afraid that Trump may surpass him and Buchanan is all we got in ineptitude here in Lancaster Pa,. (Except for the Paxton Boys killing off the last of the Conestoga Indians)
0 Replies
 
 

 
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