IF GEORGE WILL FEELS THIS WAY...

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

the black men in our nation who are steaming...are doing so appropriately. This nonsense that black men can be killed with such impunity MUST END.

I'm not saying that every one of these killings is self defense. The case in Minnesota appears to be a crime from what little I know of it.

But in the vast majority of these cases, the deaths are justified self defense.

People are not going to stop defending themselves when someone tries to kill them.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Withdrawing from the WHO during a global pandemic is disastrous.

That’s just his most recent **** up.

Thanks for a concrete example. Would you say that's true even if the WHO has behaved improperly on repeatedly and done the opposite of its actual function? I'd say that in a case like that we should find a better medical organization to work with.

2 Replies

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

engineer wrote:
People have been posting specific objections to the President's actions here for a couple of years now.

"Everyone knows" is an invalid argument.

That's not what I said. I said "people have been posting specific objections to the President's actions here for a couple of years now. " You have read those posts and replied to them. For you to say that people have not posted specific concerns is at best intellectually dishonest.

It would be if I had said it, but I didn't. I said that the OP hadn't posted specific concerns. I'm getting pretty tired of spoon feeding you this stuff.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
...I hope Brandon gives you an answer, because my answers will all be variations on, "Damn near anything but what Trump has done."

You have implied that Mr. Trump is a bad president without all the fuss and bother of having to formulate and then defend a specific criticism. How about this? You're a terrible member of A2K. Why? Because of the things you've done. There, I've proved it now!

I defy you to show anywhere where I implied in any way that Trump is a "a bad president."

He would have to improve way beyond what I consider his abilities in order to become a "bad president."

He is one of the most vile, contemptible, boorish, classless human beings I have ever seen in public life. (Okay, there is Martin Shkreli, who might be equally disgusting, although I think not.)

He is an horrendous president...a president who endangers the Republic and its institutions more ominously than any foreign enemy during my lifetime.

To suggest I called him a "bad president" is like suggesting I would refer to Adolf Hitler as a "bad guy."

I hope that cleared that up.

And amazingly, all of this without one single concrete example. Numerous serious specific allegations and not one fact given to back them up. That pretty much says it all about your position.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

oralloy wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Yeah. You want the protesters to go back to writing letters-to-the-editor asking that something be done.
That was working so well!

What needs to be done? They can write letters if they want to of course.

I cannot tell you for sure what "needs" to be done...but I can tell you how I very likely would feel if I were a black man right now in the United States.

I think it would be a variation on: Bring the ******* country to its knees. Screw things up so badly that nobody, white, black or any other color, gets any enjoyment in life. Make life as hard, and savage as possible; create a street style dog-eat-dog existence.

If I were a black man right now in America I would think the people rioting and looting at the moment are being too kind; too deferential; too respectful of laws that favor the whites.

Okay?

Just to make sure I understand what you're saying, you are asserting that the destruction of the businesses of innocent citizens, robbing them, beating or killing them is not only morally correct but necessary is that right? Please correct me if I have mischaracterized the meaning of this post.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

oralloy wrote:

Law enforcement (or the National Guard) can control violent people if they do not control themselves.

I think you have that backwards. We are not living in a police state.

The police work for me, not the other way around.

But part of that work is the arrest of people who commit violent crimes, is it not? How does that count as you working for them? Please clarify.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

I thought my position is obvious. I don't know if I really need to spell it out, but I will.

1) I want the police to understand and accept the anger that Americans feel about the mistreatment of African-Americans.

2) Angry protests are part of democracy and are protected by the Constitution. The persistent attempts to minimize the tragedy of the absurd number of killings of African American men is maddening.

3) Looting and violence are not part of democracy, and are not appropriate. This doesn't change my opinion on any other point.

4) As a society, we need to make fundamental changes on how we approach law enforcement. These changes are happening in some places, in other places

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
They work for the American people. If you want them to stand down and let these violent thugs rampage, I think the American people will outvote you on that.

The people you are calling "violent thugs" are the American people. You have a problem with your logic there.

Are you questioning that people who set property on fire and loot are violent thugs or are you saying that if Americans commit crimes, they shouldn't be arrested? That's what you seem to me to be saying. 8:35

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Nope. That is not what I am saying.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Nope. That is not what I am saying.

Well when oralloy referred to the people doing the looting, destruction, burning and beating as "violent thugs," you took exception saying that they were "the American people." This certainly seems to indicate that you are saying he is incorrect. So, why did you take exception to him calling violent thugs violent thugs?

2 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Oralloy is taking an extreme position. Oralloy is very serious about it. Frank is also taking an extreme position (although I don't think he is as serious about it).

I am clearly responding to Oralloy. He is using "violent thugs" in a way that is intended to be provocative. He is also ignoring the inherent racism of the phrases he is using; I am not sure if this is because he is ignorant or if he is trying to be an asshole.

Like many Americans, I strongly support the protests in spite of the looting.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I thought my position is obvious. I don't know if I really need to spell it out, but I will.

1) I want the police to understand and accept the anger that Americans feel about the mistreatment of African-Americans.

2) Angry protests are part of democracy and are protected by the Constitution. The persistent attempts to minimize the tragedy of the absurd number of killings of African American men is maddening.

3) Looting and violence are not part of democracy, and are not appropriate. This doesn't change my opinion on any other point.

4) As a society, we need to make fundamental changes on how we approach law enforcement. These changes are happening in some places, in other places

Okay. Why don't I sense any outrage at the murder of 4 police in the past few days not to mention the many beaten, the destruction of peoples' businesses, in some cases perhaps, businesses built up slowly over years, the property set on fire, the beatings, the attempts to forcibly storm the White House?

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

Well when oralloy referred to the people doing the looting, destruction, burning and beating as "violent thugs," you took exception saying that they were "the American people." This certainly seems to indicate that you are saying he is incorrect. So, why did you take exception to him calling violent thugs violent thugs?

He had the idea (I don't know how) that I was referring to the peaceful protesters as violent thugs.

I think the confusion is all cleared up now (I hope).

0 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Quote:

Why don't I sense any outrage at the murder of 4 police in the past few days

I think this is a factual error. Would you like to correct it?

2 Replies

Here is the problem...

Oralloy is saying that Black lives matters "wants to allow Black people to kill police officers and White people with impunity".

Brandon is saying that 4 police officers were murdered in the past few days.

Neither of these things is true. But worse, it is painting a narrative that isn't real and is hateful.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

That is incorrect. That is exactly the main goal of Black Lives Matter.

I don't know how many police officers have been murdered recently, but I've heard of one in Las Vegas I think.

1 Reply

I am a White American. My son is a police officer.

I find what Oralloy is saying to be both hateful and offensive.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Again the quote from Georgeob:
"Someone who tells you an unpleasant truth while you still have time to fix it is not your enemy; one who sees an error and remains supportively silent is not really your friend."

Not that you are facing a deadline to fix anything like the quote suggests. But my telling you the truth is a friendly act.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Oralloy is taking an extreme position.

That it's wrong to murder police officers and white people is extreme?

maxdancona wrote:

He is using "violent thugs" in a way that is intended to be provocative.

I think it is a fair characterization of the people who are looting and burning.

maxdancona wrote:

He is also ignoring the inherent racism of the phrases he is using; I am not sure if this is because he is ignorant or if he is trying to be an asshole.

There is no inherent racism in the phrases that I'm using.

maxdancona wrote:

Like many Americans, I strongly support the protests in spite of the looting.

Why is it wrong for police officers and white people to protect themselves when a black person tries to murder them?

0 Replies

@Brandon9000,

The WHO hasn’t behaved improperly, Trump handled the situation appallingly and is trying to shift focus on to the WHO to hide his own incompetence.

2 Replies

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