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Humans - our part in development

 
 
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 06:36 pm
@Leadfoot,
😎😁😊
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2020 05:43 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Did you see the movie Idiocracy?

I have posted it a couple of times, so I won't post it again here unless requested, but the introductory scene is a brilliant illustration that evolution doesnt always work as you might hope.


Didn't see it.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2020 08:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
Well... here is the opening scene. I think it is funny.

InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2020 01:53 pm
@maxdancona,
Huh, huh, I like things that are cool.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2020 04:18 pm
@Leadfoot,
It’s just a myth, as I’m sure you are aware. Borrowed from Sumer to boot. Myths can be interpreted in many different ways, that’s why they stick. My interpretation is a naturalist one: that the fruit of knowledge symbolizes the advent of what anthropologists call “behavioral modernity”, aka the invention of symbolic language and the behavioral revolution that followed. “Behavioral modernity” is generally dated 50,000 years ago, or older, somewhere in Africa.

Now, that seems like a good thing, rather than a ‘sin’. It gave our species a clear edge over others: symbolic communication means you can coordinate, plan ahead together, transmit knowledge and complex skills from one generation to the next. Language made us semi-gods. In the myth, Adam named the animals that God made, and that’s presented as a big deal.

But it’s also what started us on our trajectory to decimate other species around the globe (large mammals in particular, like mammoths). The arrival of modern humans in Europe, Asia, Australia and the Americas had a discernable negative impact on megafauna. Horses were wiped out from the Americas for instance, together with many other species, at a time when the first humans made their way into the place.

So we ‘spoiled’ each paradise when got into, one after the other. Because of our knowledge. So it was a bit of a curse too.

Language is also necessary for the formalisation and communication of rules, hence it’s logical to assume that the first formalised moral codes appeared once symbolic language was well established. So the “knowledge of good and evil” is linked to behavioral modernity. But with moral codes comes shame, the repression of the sexual drive (as may be required for the stability of increasingly large societies) and with it the practice to cover one’s genitals, which is not universal but frequent amongst human societies, including those who gave rise to this myth.

Adam and Eve biggest discovery after they eat the forbidden fruit is that they are naked, and they feel ashamed about it and cover themselves. This is clearly seen as the cut-off point in the myth.

And so perhaps the Genesis myth echoes our nostalgia for a long-gone era when we were only beasts, we weren’t encumbered with all these rules, and everybody was frolicking around naked without any shame in a yet unspoiled environment.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2020 09:10 pm
@yovav,
Jesus has changed my life. He can change your life too
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jun, 2020 05:15 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
My interpretation is a naturalist one: that the fruit of knowledge symbolizes the advent of what anthropologists call “behavioral modernity”, aka the invention of symbolic language and the behavioral revolution that followed. “Behavioral modernity” is generally dated 50,000 years ago, or older, somewhere in Africa. ...
That is as, or more, consistent than any other naturalistic interpretation I’ve heard. Fits all the anthropological and geological evidence. If I could ever convince myself that biological Lifeforms are natural, that’s how I would interpret the evidence as well.


mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 08:08 am
@Leadfoot,
No part of 'Nature' requires 'correction'.
It is ALL perfectly in-sync with itself.

And Every 'Observation' from every 'Observation-Point' in/of itself is intended - For 'experience/s' sake.

Who/What set the whole thing in motion?...
If you have an Ego-Free mirror, at hand - You already know.

Have a Lovely Day
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 09:09 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
That is as, or more, consistent than any other naturalistic interpretation I’ve heard. Fits all the anthropological and geological evidence. If I could ever convince myself that biological Lifeforms are natural, that’s how I would interpret the evidence as well.

Thanks. You don't actually need to give up on God to adopt my interpretation, or any other naturalistic interpretation. All you need is to consider that Genesis is a human myth, ie a tale explaining and giving meaning to the world, rather than God-inspired truth.

And you know in your heart this is the case, because no god worthy of the name would blame and punish his creatures for doing something evil, before they even knew what good and evil meant! The Genesis myth is illogical, like most myths are.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 09:20 am
@Olivier5,
Why WOULD He NEED To adopt YOUR Interpretation?
I suggest He Formulates and 'ADOPTS' His 'OWN'.

You are an 'obvious' 'KUNT'
And He can see for Himself.

GET BACK, OLIVER!

Have a Lovely Day
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 10:54 am
@mark noble,
He doesn't need to. I was replying to his statement that he would adopt my interpretation if he were ever to drop ID. I'm saying he can keep his ID beliefs and yet still understand Genesis as a myth.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 11:32 am
@Olivier5,
You are stating (And I'm not judging - Just interpreting what I perceive) 'If he were ever to drop ID' -

'If' = Speculative potentiate (Hypothetic)
'he' = Human-male poster
'were to' = Should (Hypothetic)
'ever' = needless exaggerative
'drop' = unaccustom to/contrarily recondition
'ID' = Missed that bit - Please define 'ID'?

Sometimes the 'Reader' is 'Reading' The 'Writer' and Not His/Her/Otherwise's Writings.

Everyone's/Thing's Reality (However, Seemingly, similar) is UNIQUE.
'Herd-mindsets' are acquired by those who Don't Know This.

On a sidenote: Why Do You Proclaim - Genesis, A Myth?

Have a Lovely Day
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 01:57 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
All you need is to consider that Genesis is a human myth, ie a tale explaining and giving meaning to the world, rather than God-inspired truth.
I'm perfectly willing to consider that possibility. And have.

Quote:
And you know in your heart this is the case, because no god worthy of the name would blame and punish his creatures for doing something evil, before they even knew what good and evil meant! The Genesis myth is illogical, like most myths are.
Here you are mixing whether Genesis is a myth or not (a straight forward enough question) with religious dogma.
Just Reading the story objectively, I have never interpreted it to say that God was punishing anyone (other than possibly the serpent) at the point where he gave them the knowledge that was promised. I have said in the past that I would have made the same choice as A&E and would not have considered God as punitive for keeping his promise.

Note that these are Theological arguments that are unrelated to ID arguments.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 02:02 pm
@mark noble,
ID: Intelligent Design.

I am saying the Genesis is a myth because it can only be one. What else could it be?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 02:06 pm
@Leadfoot,
Once again, ID has very little to do with this discussion. The Catholic Church marries ID beliefs with the idea that Genesis is a human myth (although an inspired one, that conveys important moral messages to them). So let's not even mention it, it's irrelevant to this particular debate on the meaning of Genesis.

Quote:
I have never interpreted it to say that God was punishing anyone (other than possibly the serpent) 

In the story He chases Adam and Eve from Eden though, and the text says it's a punishement.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 02:48 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
No part of 'Nature' requires 'correction'.
It is ALL perfectly in-sync with itself.
I don’t think I said it did but not sure which post you refer to. I did say that I Was ready for nature's correction at one time, but that was figuratively speaking.

Quote:
And Every 'Observation' from every 'Observation-Point' in/of itself is intended - For 'experience/s' sake.
I’m more convinced of that all the time.

Quote:
Who/What set the whole thing in motion?...
If you have an Ego-Free mirror, at hand - You already know.
Yes, and I could clearly see that it was not me.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 03:12 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
'I have never interpreted it to say that God was punishing anyone (other than possibly the serpent) '

Olivier replied:
In the story He chases Adam and Eve from Eden though, and the text says it's a punishement.

He drove them out but it does not say it was because they sinned nor does it say it’s a punishment. In KJV anyway. I assume it was a necessary part of dying which was promised them.

This is speculation but I don’t think 'Eden' was a specific place. I think Eden WAS Earth. The description of what happened in the book sounds like the genetic makeup of all biological creatures, including A&E's, was altered. Sounds like Their telomeres were no longer self repairing so they had finite lifespans and plants and animals were no longer as well optimized for their convenience.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 04:23 pm
@Leadfoot,
Well, to each his own interpretation. As I said, a good myth would allow for many of them.
NealNealNeal
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 04:43 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
'I have never interpreted it to say that God was punishing anyone (other than possibly the serpent) '

Olivier replied:
In the story He chases Adam and Eve from Eden though, and the text says it's a punishement.

He drove them out but it does not say it was because they sinned nor does it say it’s a punishment. In KJV anyway. I assume it was a necessary part of dying which was promised them.

This is speculation but I don’t think 'Eden' was a specific place. I think Eden WAS Earth. The description of what happened in the book sounds like the genetic makeup of all biological creatures, including A&E's, was altered. Sounds like Their telomeres were no longer self repairing so they had finite lifespans and plants and animals were no longer as well optimized for their convenience.
you should write a book on what physically happened to Adam and Eve
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 06:12 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Well, to each his own interpretation. As I said, a good myth would allow for many of them.
The same can be said of History, which frequently is myth.

The hard part is finding one that is consistent and coherent in full context. And preferably true.
 

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