6
   

Humans - our part in development

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Mon 15 Jun, 2020 07:06 am
I appreciate what the serpent did. God created creatures that were perfect robots, they couldn't do anything but obey (with a single escape clause). Humans, after the fall, because the beautiful creatures they are today with all of our flaws and triumphs barbarism and acts of heroism. None of this would have been possible if we hadn't eaten of the fruit.

I suspect that eating the Fruit was part of God's plan all along, or else he wouldn't have created it. God, being perfect, found a loophole that would create an imperfect being... because only an imperfect being would be able to truly love him (out of free will rather than out of programming).

And it was good.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 15 Jun, 2020 07:15 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I think you are greatly misusing that scripture.

Paul is talking about a very specific issue, whether Gentiles are subject to Jewish religious law. He isn't making general statement about sin.

Your logic would turn the Apostle Paul into an extreme moral relativist, where anything (murder, idolatry, having sex with your sister) would be permissible as long as you don't know it is sin.

Paul isn't making that argument.



Correct.

Paul essentially is making Jesus out to be a liar. There is no reconciling Paul's letter to the Galatians...and the message of Jesus in Matthew.

Paul was dealing with a rather minor, local dispute on a very limited issue...but was totally at odds with what Jesus had to say. (Acts confirms what is said in Galatians.)
maxdancona
 
  2  
Mon 15 Jun, 2020 07:32 am
@Frank Apisa,
The epistles (i.e. letters from Paul to Christians) indicate a fierce theological scuffle between Paul and what I have heard called the "Judaizers". We only really only hear one side of the argument, but it clearly was nasty.

I have some respect for Paul in this from what he said in his letters. I would have been on his side on this issue.

If you think about it, Gentiles were stealing from and reinterpreting Jewish tradition. It is kind of related to the arguments over "cultural appropriation" now. I do see the other side of the argument. If they are going to take our religion, they should do it all the way. I still would have supported Paul.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 15 Jun, 2020 10:43 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The epistles (i.e. letters from Paul to Christians) indicate a fierce theological scuffle between Paul and what I have heard called the "Judaizers". We only really only hear one side of the argument, but it clearly was nasty.

I have some respect for Paul in this from what he said in his letters. I would have been on his side on this issue.

If you think about it, Gentiles were stealing from and reinterpreting Jewish tradition. It is kind of related to the arguments over "cultural appropriation" now. I do see the other side of the argument. If they are going to take our religion, they should do it all the way. I still would have supported Paul.



I might have also...but I consider Paul more of a zealot than Jesus. Jesus seems to be to be...well, Jesus. Paul takes on more of the characteristics of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell or that lot.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Mon 15 Jun, 2020 10:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
I don't think it is fair to compare the Apostle Paul to modern televangelists like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell (You are giving modern televangelists way too much credit).

The Apostle Paul was at least a true believer. Paul wasn't all about building a profitable media empire. I am not sure if Pat Robertson even truly believes in God.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Tue 16 Jun, 2020 10:30 am
@maxdancona,
To whom is Good speaking in Genesis 3:15?
maxdancona
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jun, 2020 10:43 am
@NealNealNeal,
Read the text

Genesis 3 wrote:
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”


Read the text for your self. It is clear that....

1. The serpent is one of the wild animals and part of creation.

2. The punishment of this wild animal is that all of its descendants (i.e. modern day snakes) have to crawl on their bellies.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jun, 2020 05:24 am
When 'you', I, click-on or infuse ourself/ves in a topic/thread of interest - Which, ultimately, derails into Obscurity - It is fair - To question the ambiguitiousness (New word) of the 'Thread/OP' - I have more to add - But, am ambiguatively limited.

Have a Lovely Day
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jun, 2020 06:40 am
Let's see just how far we have strayed

Quote:
Are we the only part of nature that requires its correction ?


When I consider this question I find that I am probably a complete 'specist'. I like mine above all the others. That’s got to be worse than any racist.

Except for dogs. I love dogs. And my cat, RIP Swiffer.

I am ready for Nature's correction.
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jun, 2020 04:52 pm
I think that virus is second in commad. The virus cooperate with each other and defeat other beings. Look at how many people Corona Virus has killed.
Virus will one day win "survival of the fittest". 😙
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 09:09 am
@NealNealNeal,
Maybe the virus is not a ruthless killer.
Maybe it’s an angel of mercy, taking out both villains and those tired of this life.
A few million would only be a good start.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 09:15 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Maybe the virus is not a ruthless killer.
Maybe it’s an angel of mercy, taking out both villains and those tired of this life.
A few million would just be a good start.


What if Covid-19 is really the Rapture?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 09:32 am
@maxdancona,
Possible I guess. But that would be skipping a lot of stuff that’s supposed to happen first. Plus the fact that my read of the story has the 'raptured' meeting Him in the air, but he’s on his way HERE, not heaven. He’s supposed to finish our education here for a thousand years before the end of the story in Heaven.

That makes total sense to me. As it stands now, there are too many sincere believers who would nevertheless have my head on the chopping block for just thinking as I do. I wouldn’t be fond of spending eternity with them either. Yep, a thousand years with Him is what it might take.

And to think that after all that, a bunch of the raptured will join up with Satan when he’s let loose again.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 10:15 am
@maxdancona,
Actually...what kills us...makes us stronger. Only the strong survive to procreate.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 10:21 am
@Frank Apisa,
The logical outcome of that view would be a creature like that in the movie 'Alien'. And nothing else.
'Nature' has no concept of balance.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 11:24 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Actually...what kills us...makes us stronger. Only the strong survive to procreate.


Three cheers for covid-19?

(I am not sure it works that way).
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 11:43 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot---I don't think that the Virus is an angel of mercy. Based on people's reaction to the Virus, I think humans would be doomed without our medical technology.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 12:13 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Actually...what kills us...makes us stronger. Only the strong survive to procreate.


Three cheers for covid-19?

(I am not sure it works that way).



Neither am I...and in fact, I would guess that it doesn't.

But survival of the fittest has some play in lots of things people don't think about a lot. One of the problems with antibiotics is that at some point, a few strains are able to withstand the purge long enough to take advantage of mistakes made by patients who stop taking the medicine before it is used completely.

Viruses are the cockroaches of the microscopic world. They will survive...and the strongest will be the first to mutate to something stronger.

Humans share that quality...and my guess is that "what kills us makes us stronger" has more truth to it that may seem at first blush.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 02:47 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Just ****'n with ya Neal.
JC said we would do greater things than he. I’d have already died a couple of times if it weren’t for modern medicine. Far as I know, JC only brought back a couple of folks, and only one time.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 03:08 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Did you see the movie Idiocracy?

I have posted it a couple of times, so I won't post it again here unless requested, but the introductory scene is a brilliant illustration that evolution doesnt always work as you might hope.
 

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