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Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

 
 
thethinkfactory
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 03:01 pm
Lash wrote:
They are pretty desperate to get Rove out of business. He's KILLING them in the elections.



That is the truth. Atwater was the same way.

Have you ever read what happened to Atwater toward the end. He got cancer and send dozens of oppology letters to people he had screwed.

I hope Rove and Co figure it out before cancer kills them.

TTF
0 Replies
 
RichNDanaPoint
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 03:38 pm
Let's just put this in perspective, folks.

This is only part of a bigger story.

In my humble opinion, the Downing Street Memos (minutes) is what should be at the center of our attention.

These document, if found to be true, provide smoking gun evidence towards the impeachment of Bush and co.

This story is also related to the Niger Uranium forgery story, however. Hopefully that story gets more exposure thanks to this development.

Don't forget, though: all roads still lead to the "lying about war" issue.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 03:58 pm
I felt sorry for Lee. He was tanked on painkillers toward the end and became maudlin as one will when dying and broiled on painkillers.

He was brilliant. I was quite sad when he went.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 04:01 pm
Damn Kuvasc! You're trying to use Lyin' Joe's blatherings to convince that Lyin Joe wasn't Lyin'?

C'Mon, man.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 04:20 pm
Here's the thing:

It doesn't matter if Joe was lying or not. It is still wrong to out a secret agent of the US.

It's still a crime. And Joe's business is besides the point anyways, as we all know that intelligence can be viewed in different ways and we all know that a whole lot of ass-covering can be done after things start to be a problem. The smear on Wilson is exactly that, and ya know it, Lash....


Quote:
07.03.2005 Lawrence O'Donnell

Update on Rove
On Friday, I broke the story that the e-mails that Time turned over to the prosecutor that day reveal that Karl Rove is the source Matt Cooper is protecting. That provoked Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, to interrupt his holiday weekend to do a little defense work with Newsweek and the Los Angeles Times. On Saturday, Luskin decided to reveal that Rove did have at least one conversation with Cooper, but Luskin told the Times he would not "characterize the substance of the conversation."

Luskin claimed that the prosecutor "asked us not to talk about what Karl has had to say." This is highly unlikely. Prosecutors have absolutely no control over what witnesses say when they leave the grand jury room. Rove can tell us word-for-word what he said to the grand jury and would if he thought it would help him. And notice that Luskin just did reveal part of Rove's grand jury testimony, the fact that he had a conversation with Cooper. Rove would not let me get one day of traction on this story if he could stop me. If what I have reported is not true, if Karl Rove is not Matt Cooper's source, Rove could prove that instantly by telling us what he told the grand jury. Nothing prevents him from doing that, except a good lawyer who is trying to keep him out of jail.

Posted at 10:29 AM | Author Bio | permalink


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/featuredposts.html#a003531

Keep denying it all the way to the end, though; it will be a lot more fun that way....

Cycloptichorn
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 04:31 pm
Oh, I'm sure its gonna be fun, Cyc - I've been looking forward to the resolution of this for a good, long while now.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 04:34 pm
The truth, in this case, will make Bush look better.
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thethinkfactory
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 06:09 pm
Bizzar-o Lash.

TTF
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 06:23 pm
Join the side of truth, fairness and the (cue music) the American Way!!!!
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 06:53 pm
lash :
all i believe is that it is an attorney's duty , his only duty, to stand by his/her client . the attorney is not hired to "discover the truth" ... perhaps he is hired to discover the truth , the way his client sees it.

if an attorney would ever say : "my client is guilty ", or anything coming close to it , before he is proven guilty, it would probably be gross dereliction of duty.
certainly i would not want an attorney admitting guilt on my behalv ... unless perhaps pleabargaining was involved.
so i think that carl rove's attorney is doing what he is obligated to do.

the opposing party (call them attackers, if you will), would usually pull out all the stops to get a conviction ... and i believe that is their duty . if they in turn overstep their boundaries, they could , of course be liable for slander.
all of this may seem like some ritualistic dance. well, i guesss that's how our legal system works ... and i can live with that (even though i might sometimes fume at the outcome).

(i've probably read too much "rumpole of the bailey".) hbg
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 07:02 pm
lash wrote :
"Join the side of truth, fairness and the (cue music) the American Way!!!! "

FAIRNESS ? who is looking for fairness ? life would be absolutely boring is that was to become one of the guiding principles of life.
(someone may look you in the eye and say : "i just want to be fair ". imo you better run as fast as you can, before you get screwed royally. keep your motor running ! .) hbg
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 07:06 pm
Right next to the big stack of WMD's was the huge pile of yellowcake, right? Uh,..... those wiley Iraqis were able to make them be invisible...and make all that yellowcake be see-through too.

Then: We must act now. There is no time to waste.

Now: Just be patient.

Here's what:

Then: They panicked, sucking up any and all information that bolstered the case for war, convincing themselves that the invasion was both a crisis, an emergency and that it would be a cakewalk, a slam-dunk, with minimum opposition within the country.

Now: Embarrassed by the lack of adulation from the people of Iraq, the lack of support from the people of the world (remember we are in a War against Terror, we need to have the people of the world on our side) surprised by the vehement resistance and the lack of any realistic, to say nothing of optimistic, forecast, not of the withdrawal of troops, but of the end of daily conflict, they say remember 9-11.


We do.
We ask

where is Osama?


Joe(Still searching for the real killers)Nation
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 07:15 pm
So many places to start, but in this case the beginning might as well be this, viz., the Report of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, because that is the document being used to attack Joe Wilson's veracity and thus undermine his New York Times article of June 6, 2003, which itself was an attack on the truthfulness of the Bush Administration in the run-up to the Iraq War.

Wilson's article provoked a retaliatory response from the Bush administration that "his [Wilson's] wife is fair game," according to Chris Mathews relating a phone call from Karl Rove. A subsequent leak to the press (at least six press members were contacted) provided information as to the CIA position of Wilson's wife. Her job and her employment with the CIA were considered covert.

Because her covert status was revealed in the press it was considered by the CIA to be a matter to be investigated by the Dept of Justice. The Grand Jury investigation is centering upon White House employees having leaked the confidential information to the press.

First, the actual words in the Report that are the reference point for the attacks on Wilson's honesty instead of didactions found here.

From an appendix to the actual Report, entitled "Additional View" There are nine "Additional Views" sign by from one to six Senators. This one is signed by three Senators.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/13jul20041400/www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/s108-301/roberts.pdf

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html

Quote:


Yes indeed, harsh words for Mr. Wilson from three of the US Senators on that committee.

However, it should be noted that there were eighteen members of the US Senate on that committee, and all nine Democratic members along with six Republican US Senators refused to sign on to the aforementioned interpretation of the "facts."

Again, lay side by side this minority viewpoint with Wilson's rebuttal at Salon.com and his subsequent reply to the article in the Post and you can see why 15 US Senators did not sign on to what the minority view was stating.

Why were five out of six Senantors wrong?

Then oh geeze, "Steno" Sue Schmitt?

The Post's article was a redaction of several details of the above minority appendix to the Report of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

Wilson replied to the specific details of these interpretations of facts linked at salon.com on July 15, 2004.

Anyway, Wilson replied to her article within days.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56501-2004Jul16.html

Quote:
Debunking Distortions About My Trip to Niger

Saturday, July 17, 2004; Page A17

For the second time in a year, your paper has published an article [news story, July 10] falsely suggesting that my wife, Valerie Plame, was responsible for the trip I took to Niger on behalf of the U.S. government to look into allegations that Iraq had sought to purchase several hundred tons of yellowcake uranium from that West African country. Last July 14, Robert Novak, claiming two senior sources, exposed Valerie as an "agency operative [who] suggested sending him to Niger." Novak went ahead with his column despite the fact that the CIA had urged him not to disclose her identity. That leak to Novak may well have been a federal crime and is under investigation.

In the year since the betrayal of Valerie's covert status, it has been widely understood that she is irrelevant to the unpaid mission I undertook or the conclusions I reached. But your paper's recent article acted as a funnel for this scurrilous and extraneous charge, uncritically citing the Republican-written Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report.
The decision to send me to Niger was not made, and could not be made, by Valerie. At the conclusion of a meeting that she did not attend, I was asked by CIA officials whether I would be willing to travel to Niger. While a CIA reports officer and a State Department analyst, both cited in the report, speculate about what happened, neither of them was in the chain of command that made the decision to send me. Reams of documents were given over to the Senate committee, but the only quotation attributed to my wife on this subject was the anodyne "my husband has good relations with both the PM (Prime Minister) and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." In fact, with 2-year-old twins at home, Valerie did not relish my absence for a two-week period. But she acquiesced because, in the zeal to be responsive to the legitimate concerns raised by the vice president, officials of her agency turned to a known functionary who had previously checked out uranium-related questions for them.

But that is not the only inaccurate assertion or conclusion in the Senate report uncritically parroted in the article. Other inaccuracies and distortions include the suggestion that my findings "bolstered" the case that Niger was engaged in illegal sales of uranium to Iraq. In fact, the Senate report is clear that the intelligence community attempted to keep the claim out of presidential documents because of the weakness of the evidence.

The facts surrounding my trip remain the same. I traveled to Niger and found it unlikely that Iraq had attempted to purchase several hundred tons of yellowcake uranium. In his 2003 State of the Union address, President Bush referred to Iraqi attempts to purchase uranium "from Africa." Between March 2003 and July 2003, the administration refused to acknowledge that it had known for more than a year that the claim on uranium sales from Niger had been discredited, until the day after my article in the New York Times. The next day the White House issued a statement that "the sixteen words did not rise to the level of inclusion in the State of the Union address." Those facts are amply supported in the Senate report.

-- Joseph C. Wilson IV
0 Replies
 
thethinkfactory
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 07:59 pm
Lash wrote:
Join the side of truth, fairness and the (cue music) the American Way!!!!


That's funny. Wink

However, it scares me a bit that you respect Atwater more for his previous ball busting work - not his oppologies and attempts to get forgiveness and peace for his way of life.

TF
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 09:49 pm
kuvasz, where is the Senate Committee's disavowal? And where is there any evidence to support Wilson's protestations? In the same safe with the TANG AWOL documents and the Downing Street Memo? That's the bar to vault over.

Now, of course, I could be wrong, but I just don't see the Dems getting anything they're gonna like outta this deal. We shall see.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2005 11:13 pm
timberlandko wrote:
kuvasz, where is the Senate Committee's disavowal? And where is there any evidence to support Wilson's protestations? In the same safe with the TANG AWOL documents and the Downing Street Memo? That's the bar to vault over.

Now, of course, I could be wrong, but I just don't see the Dems getting anything they're gonna like outta this deal. We shall see.


Yes, you are wrong, and being bizarrely obtuse.

The Senate committee's unanimous report left out all the accusations you cite made by Roberts, Bond and Hatch in their addendum that castigated Wilson, because 15 Senators did not believe them.

The majority, 15-3 did disavow what Roberts, Bond and Hatch said about Wilson. If the remaining senators had agreed with them any one of these 15 senators would have signed on to the "Additional View" signed by Roberts, Bond and Hatch in the appendix. Factually, none did and 15 of 18 Senators did not avow that Wilson lied. Instead, by their not joining with the remarks of Roberts, Bond and Hatch they avowed that Wilson did not lie.

How much more clear do you want it? You are declaring that a minority opinion must be disavowed by the majority when a priori it is disavowed by the very nature of it being in the minority.

Wilson has publically supplied evidence along with the names of people who can and have repeatedly corroborated his statements. Since there is no further investigation by the Intelligence Committee at this time, in what way is it possible, let alone necessary to further counter a minority opinion?

Btw: Tony Blair's government has officially stated that the Downing Street memos are accurate.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2005 12:04 am
thethinkfactory wrote:
Lash wrote:
Join the side of truth, fairness and the (cue music) the American Way!!!!


That's funny. Wink

However, it scares me a bit that you respect Atwater more for his previous ball busting work - not his oppologies and attempts to get forgiveness and peace for his way of life.

TF

Politics is an art, or at least that's one way to look at it.

Atwater was a master.

He didn't do anything so bad. He apologized for Horton. He needn't have. All he did was tell the truth about Horton. As I've said before, it isn't the fault of the GOP--or Lee Atwater, that Willie Horton takes a bad picture.

Legions dead and alive on both sides of the aisle did much worse than Atwater. Few did it as well.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2005 12:24 am
Lash wrote:

Politics is an art, or at least that's one way to look at it.

Atwater was a master.

He didn't do anything so bad. He apologized for Horton. He needn't have. All he did was tell the truth about Horton. As I've said before, it isn't the fault of the GOP--or Lee Atwater, that Willie Horton takes a bad picture.

Legions dead and alive on both sides of the aisle did much worse than Atwater. Few did it as well.


It's creepy how well you fit in with these legions, Lash.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2005 12:42 am
Yeah. I'm an evil political operative. You're so astute.

Can't you do anything but the personal attack? C'mon. Find an issue, adopt an opinion and defend it without attacking your opponents.

I dare you!

I DARE YOU!!!!!
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2005 06:45 am
Don't you want to be associated with Atwood? Wouldn't that be a badge of honor for you? You mightily defend the political actions of Frist and DeLay and Bush with nary a mumbling word of doubt, the true follower of the true believers. Good on you, I would have thought. No?

Joe(really.)Nation
0 Replies
 
 

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