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Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 03:36 pm
What is it Karl Rove did that is so much more despicable than his Dem counterpart, ...what's his name...Mary Matalin's husband...?

The Dems act as though they don't have anyone who's played hard ball. <shake head>
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 03:47 pm
You legal beagles might want to check this out

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/21/174810/777

Cycloptichorn
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Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 04:17 pm
"Note also that the statute uses the term "access" and not the term "possession." The "leaker" doesn't have to have confidential material in his hot little hands; he just has to have "access" to it.

With the security clearances of the White House staff, it would seem quite logical that they possess the specific access of the first provision and not some lower level of general access"...

..........Rove is dispicable..........
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 04:42 pm
Cyclo, How much you wanna bet Rove doesn't spend one day in jail?
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 04:47 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Cyclo, How much you wanna bet Rove doesn't spend one day in jail?


Even if Rove is found guilty, it will be unlikely for him to go to jail. 3 years probation and lose his security clearance will be the probable outcome.

The requirements of that probation are what could send him to jail if he violates it. 3 years required to be an upright citizen...
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 04:48 pm
parados wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Cyclo, How much you wanna bet Rove doesn't spend one day in jail?


Even if Rove is found guilty, it will be unlikely for him to go to jail. 3 years probation and lose his security clearance will be the probable outcome.

The requirements of that probation are what could send him to jail if he violates it. 3 years required to be an upright citizen...


... 3 years of not irritating a liberal.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 04:52 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
parados wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Cyclo, How much you wanna bet Rove doesn't spend one day in jail?


Even if Rove is found guilty, it will be unlikely for him to go to jail. 3 years probation and lose his security clearance will be the probable outcome.

The requirements of that probation are what could send him to jail if he violates it. 3 years required to be an upright citizen...


... 3 years of not irritating a liberal.


3 years of not associating with a known criminal element :wink:
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 04:53 pm
parados wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
parados wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Cyclo, How much you wanna bet Rove doesn't spend one day in jail?


Even if Rove is found guilty, it will be unlikely for him to go to jail. 3 years probation and lose his security clearance will be the probable outcome.

The requirements of that probation are what could send him to jail if he violates it. 3 years required to be an upright citizen...


... 3 years of not irritating a liberal.


3 years of not associating with a known criminal element :wink:


... 3 years of not winning an election.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 04:54 pm
What's up with the Whitehouse website today? It's been down since early morning. I wanted to post a reporter's question from the news briefing yesterday. McClellan was asked if the source of the leak on Bush's Supreme Court nomination was Rove. It got a huge laugh.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 04:56 pm
And Tico wins that round with
Quote:
3 years of not winning an election.

We have finally found the bottom line for Republican ethics, winning elections.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 05:32 pm
Tico - I am disturbed by your "Republican ethics" AND your mention of winning elections (something the Democrats won't have to worry about in the foreseeable future). Please turn yourself over to the proper authorities and blame it on Rove.

Thanks.
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 07:15 pm
kuvasz
Thank you so much for pulling that all together. It must have taken some time and effort. It certainly helped me understand some of the finer legal points involved here.

Came across this from somewhere else today. It is a quote from SC Justice Brandeis:

Quote:
"the government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes the law breaker or the law bender, it breeds contempt for laws, it invites every man to become a law unto to himself…"
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 07:33 pm
JustWonders wrote:
Tico - I am disturbed by your "Republican ethics" AND your mention of winning elections (something the Democrats won't have to worry about in the foreseeable future). Please turn yourself over to the proper authorities and blame it on Rove.

Thanks.


Yes, I am ashamed.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 07:58 pm
Sure, Tico. LOL.
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 08:01 pm
And no, I am not going to link you to instances of what I consider to be denigrating, insulting remarks about others here, and/or their specific posts. Will not play that way.

Readers here are quite aware.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 08:13 pm
Tico said:

Quote:
I nearly agree with you completely here, Soz. But I do think, at this time, it is meaningless. Put it aside ... keep an eye on it ... but until such time as it is explaned more fully, and given context and form, it is meaningless. And it isn't evidence, unlike the very relevant opinion of Karl Rove concerning his intent. The only possible way it would be evidence is if this official is in a position to have knowledge concerning where Ms. Plame has been stationed in the last year, and his/her opinion as to the legal effect of that knowledge is only pertinent if he has the legal background and experience to square those facts with the IIPA, and form a reasoned legal opinion.


Meaningless? As in without meaning? You can't be serious.

and again:

Quote:
What's wrong with the lawyers having all the power?


You are tweaking us again, aren't you?

and again:

Quote:

This issue (whether Rove committed a crime) is obviously deserving of a legal analysis. Of course we can employ inference and deduction in our fanciful discussion of this issue, but we should be mindful of the shortfalls of doing so.


Fanciful? Consider the implications in your choice of word here. Towards us, the other posters, as opposed to the legal community I suppose. And what are the shortfalls of empirical evidence, inference and deduction?

Quote:
I keep emphasizing that nobody is able to answer the simple question of whether she is a covert agent, a prerequisite for triggering the IIPA. It isn't that there isn't any conclusive evidence ... it's that there is NO evidence.


Where is it written that she must have been a covert agent (and at what point in time?) to trigger the IIPA?

And of course there are people that are able to answer the simple question as to whether she had worked as a covert agent.

This post is long enough. More later.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 08:20 pm
sumac wrote:
And no, I am not going to link you to instances of what I consider to be denigrating, insulting remarks about others here, and/or their specific posts. Will not play that way.

Readers here are quite aware.


Couldn't find any, eh?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 08:28 pm
sumac wrote:
Where is it written that she must have been a covert agent (and at what point in time?) to trigger the IIPA?


Good question, and one many who haven't been following this thread would be interested in having answered ...

US Code Title 50, Chapter 15, Subchapter IV:

Quote:
§ 421. Protection of identities of certain United States undercover intelligence officers, agents, informants, and sources

(a) Disclosure of information by persons having or having had access to classified information that identifies covert agent. Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.


Quote:
§ 426. Definitions

For the purposes of this subchapter:

...

0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 08:35 pm
Thanks for that. Covert and intent clearly spelled out.

Are you aware of any other law that might cover aspects of this as well?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 08:37 pm
As I said, I don't play. It is a waste of my time. There are plenty of examples behind you, and you and everyone else knows of them.
0 Replies
 
 

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