0
   

Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

 
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 09:03 am
Are we talking indictments? Does Timber really believe no high-ranking public official will be indicted? Wow, this is easy money!
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 09:22 am
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 09:34 am
PDiddie wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
I stand ready to wager this will not turn out at all the way the Democrats hope - and anticipate - it will. If PDiddie is willing, I'll offer the same terms as our previous bet: a $50 donation to the National Committee of the US political party chosen by the winner. To clarify my position, I state again, I do not believe the investigation will conclude any high-level Republican perpetrated any prosecutable offense in the matter of the Plame Game.


I believe it will, and let's make it for a hundred.

That would be the hundred Lash is still holding for me (in a non-interest bearing account, I presume).

Deal?

How do I send it to you?

Anything but Democrats. I'd have soon sent it to the Communist party during the Cold War.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 10:29 am
timberlandko wrote:
I stand ready to wager this will not turn out at all the way the Democrats hope - and anticipate - it will. If PDiddie is willing, I'll offer the same terms as our previous bet: a $50 donation to the National Committee of the US political party chosen by the winner.

May I suggest a worthy cause? They need the money more, you know...
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 10:36 am
So, he finds the real Communist party...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 10:40 am
You think Greens = Communists? <rolls eyes>
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 10:42 am
LOL

But, seriously. I'll have to bring some of their disturbing planks some time today.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 10:44 am
timberlandko wrote:
Quote:
Harper's, Oct 7, 2003 ... Rove, the president's political adviser, denied being the source of the leak, though he was reportedly fired from George H.W. Bush's 1992 reelection campaign for leaking damaging information about a rival to Bob Novak, the very columnist who exposed Plame in July ...

Ok .... now, follow along here - notice the " ... reportedly fired from George H.W. Bush's 1992 reelection campaign ... " bit; keep track of that, we're going somewhere with it.

The "report" of the firing turned up in this discussion a while back, first referenced by PDiddie, apparently as lifted from a blog, then expanded upon by JustWonders, who tracked it down to another Blog Post, which quoted in its entirety a typical-of-its-genre fact-challenged, agenda-ridden William Rivers Pitt screed, the original of which is Here.

Where did the "Report" itself originate? Well, that came from an article written for the January 2003 edition of Esquire Magazine, by noted hyperbolic Bushophobe Ron Suskind, who asserted
Quote:
... Sources close to the former president say Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush presidential campaign after he planted a negative story with columnist Robert Novak about dissatisfaction with campaign fundraising chief and Bush loyalist Robert Mosbacher Jr. It was smoked out, and he was summarily ousted ...
From that snippet, a meme spread across the internet, capturing the fancy of the sorts eager to see their cherished perceptions reinforced.

A "meme", timber says? Yes, a meme. You see, Suskind had it wrong. Rove was dismissed from Bush Sr's '92 Texas campaign, which was headed by the son, Robert Mosbacher Jr, of Bush national campaign fundraiser, Robert Mosbacher Sr, but there was no "Leak" to Novak, and Rove continued his work with the national '92 Bush Sr campaign, his contretemps with the Mosbacher Jr in Texas notwithstanding, and in fact irrelevant.

<grins>

Not bad ...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 10:47 am
Lash wrote:
But, seriously. I'll have to bring some of their disturbing planks some time today.

Oh you can call them "disturbing" any time you wish. I would hope someone with your views considered theirs disturbing ... Razz

But "communist"? Nah. And thats not an equation to make lightly, either. I dont like it at all when people go about branding any conservative whose views they find disturbing "fascist" either.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 10:58 am
nimh's statement--

Oh you can call them "disturbing" any time you wish. I would hope someone with your views considered theirs disturbing ...
----------
They are considered incredibly naive about reality (as Greens collectively and individually are here) and therefore have tiny support in the states.

I consider pie in the sky idealism that fails to address what's going on down here on earth to be reckless.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 11:05 am
No problem with that. Even to the standards of European Greens, the US Greens are indeed pretty ... idealistic (tho I do think they have a valuable role to play).

Its the "communists!" cry I resented.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 11:06 am
Lash wrote:
They are considered incredibly naive about reality (as Greens collectively and individually are here) and therefore have tiny support in the states.

I consider pie in the sky idealism that fails to address what's going on down here on earth to be reckless.


And this - "They are considered incredibly naive about reality" - backs your opinion about 'Greens' at large and being communists in particular?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 11:14 am
Sort of, but that wasn't planned.

Yeah, Walter, take a look at recent history. Did Marx' Communism work? I think we can all agree his plan--incredibly idealistic--was perverted out of the gate by the Soviets. What ensued was one of the most authoritarian regimes in history.

Was Communism pie- in- the- sky naive? Yes.
Do the Greens espouse some planks that are viewed as Communist in nature? Yes. Idealistically and naively (word?) Communist in nature.

Communist is no longer such an insult per me--because Marx meant well--and because Communism was proven a failure. I think Marx had some kindhearted ideas. They just don't work.

Like Greens.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 11:21 am
Well, I don't think your opinion shows a lot of knowledge about politics, political ideas, etc in the Green parties.

But since Marxism and Communism still seem to be a red flag in the USA and Greens seem to be looked at as exotics, that's not all surprising.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 11:24 am
Lash wrote:
Do the Greens espouse some planks that are viewed as Communist in nature? Yes.

Viewed by whom?

Do they propagate the nationalisation of infrastructure and industry? Do they plead for the abolition of parliamentary democracy (or consider that their ultimate goal)? Do they feel there needs to be a dictatorship of the proletariat? Do they even want a revolution?

Do you make any distinction between "communist" and, say, "socialist" or "social-democratic" at all?

I think Buchanan is pretty far out too, pretty disturbing, but just because I consider him way too conservative doesn't mean I can go around calling him "fascist".
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 11:43 am
Kuvasz, your voting record isn't at issue here, the issue in specific is
1a) Did a highly placed White House figure b) criminally leak information which c) compromised national security, and, if so,
2) Who was that figure?
3) What are the circumstances of that person's knowlege of and subsequent release of the information leaked?
and, though marginal,
4) To whom was the information leaked, and when.

The issue is not Wilson's veracity. It is not any role Plame may or may not have had in Wilson's assignment. It is not what was or was not the evidence gathered by Wilson. It is not who may have said or done what in any report, analysis, or summation other than the yet-to-be-issued grand jury statement of investigation findings and conclusions. All the rest is side show, irrelevant, or of at most tangential relationship to the issue at hand.

As to that issue, a negative finding in the case of any of item 1) as cited above essentially moots the rest, though a finding of complicity involving someone other than a White House official still leaves items 2) through 4) to be addressed, but removes the White House from the equation, a circumstance which would be much to the inconvenience of the Rove-ophobes.


Portray the issue however you find convenient and comforting. The Grand Jury is dealing with items 1) through 4) as listed above, and will, when Fitzcerald deems it appropriate, release its findings and conclusions pertinent thereto.


PDiddie wrote:
I believe it will, and let's make it for a hundred.


OK, PDiddie, you're on. I sorta like nimh's idea of a worthy cause, though I think if we do go that way, to be absolutely fair, we would have come to agreement on a mutually acceptable apolitical worthy cause. One which comes immediately to mind is A2K itself, however I'm open to suggestion.

Chrissee wrote:
Are we talking indictments? Does Timber really believe no high-ranking public official will be indicted? Wow, this is easy money!

I believe you misapprehend the terms and conditions of the wager, as set forth. They are clearly delineated, and do not conform to your conjectural assessment.

Stradee, good article, IMO. One thing it leaves out is that Rove, on record and unambiguously, claims to have requested confidentiality from no one in regard to the Plame Game. If that is true, Rove cannot have been a source who's confidentiality the sanctioned reporters pressed.

nimh wrote:
Not bad ...


Thanks. It was fun.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 12:47 pm
Lash wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
that reminds me, lash. i read through the report (niger, ambassador, cincinnati) and still didn't see the part about a phone number. where did you see that ?


What phone call...?


you said that he didn't call a phone number contact he was given, so therefore did not do a thorough investigation...
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 01:33 pm
Timber,

"Stradee, good article, IMO. One thing it leaves out is that Rove, on record and unambiguously, claims to have requested confidentiality from no one in regard to the Plame Game. If that is true, Rove cannot have been a source who's confidentiality the sanctioned reporters pressed"...

<chuckle>

Gossip :wink:
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 01:36 pm
OK, DTOM. I'll find that for you.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 01:38 pm
Oh yeah.
---------

nimh's question:
Do you make any distinction between "communist" and, say, "socialist" or "social-democratic" at all?
---------
Admittedly, not much. Some.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Karl Rove E-mails - Discussion by Diest TKO
Rove: McCain went 'too far' in ads - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Sheryl Crow Battles Karl Rove at D.C. Press Dinner - Discussion by BumbleBeeBoogie
Texas attorney fired for Rove article comments - Discussion by BumbleBeeBoogie
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 03/10/2025 at 11:05:56