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Wed 19 Feb, 2020 09:18 am
Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?
Most, as well as scriptures, say that it was through Adam, even though Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh’s plan.
Given the necessity, Adam, from that, may not be the culpable one and his punishment would be unjust.
Satan had already sinned in heaven before being cast into Eden.
It can be truthfully said that she was the first sinner on earth if we ignore Yahweh.
Further, would you say that Eve sinned, given that Satan or the talking serpent deceived her?
That deception would take lies, and that is a sin, and that sin also preceded Adam’s sin.
Many do not see what the serpent says as a lie, which complicates things.
Was the initial sin, regardless of who did it, a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan like Christians sing in their Exultet hymn?
Did Yahweh lie when he told Adam that he would die if he educated himself with the knowledge in the Tree of Knowledge?
Why and how does knowledge kill us?
If it does, should we keep our children as blind to it as Adam and Eve initially were?
The Eden myth can get quite complicated, especially when Christians call it a fall, then say it was necessary so as not to derail Yahweh’s plan.
This last being what the Jews wrote into their myth and which they say is not the Original Sin of the Christian interpretation, but more like the Original virtue that the Jews call it.
The opposite of what Christianity says, if you ignore their happy fault view.
In terms of first sin, I see Yahweh, since sin was necessary to him as the first sinner, followed by Satan, Yahweh’s loyal opposition and teacher of humankind, and then Adam.
Why Eve at the end of Genesis 3 has to then be second class to Adam, --- he shall rule over you, --- would seem like Yahweh punishing the wrong party.
Thoughts?
Regards
DL
I'm darn sure that the President has banned Yahweh from the land. If this is a sin, then it is clearly Trump's fault.
The Trump administration and its supporters want to focus on direct culpability.
However, Canada's Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau has taken an extraordinary swipe at President Trump as he insinuated it was America's fault!
Although the tectonic plates opened by Donald Trump's presidency continue to clang... but if you believe him, none of this is his fault.
Satan is the serpent (Rev 20.2) Only Grigori knew the difference between what was righteous and sinful.
Peace out.
@Greatest I am,
Since I wasn't there, I don't know.
Since the bible was written down by man, several years after events were said to have happened, it may be incredibly inaccurate.
Given the many translations over the years, the odds are it is even less factual.
Wasn't Satan/Beelzebub/Lucifer/Abaddon tossed down to Earth in general and not directly to Eden? I thought that was why he turned into a serpent. So he could slither on over and not ruin a good pair of sandals from walking....
No, Yahweh did not lie. As you know, Yahweh is incapable of fibbing.
If you examine the matter, Adam did indeed perish at the moment he tasted the apple. His innocence died.
Sorry, my bad; I thought we were talking about Huawei (same pronunciation) the devil of 5G.
@Leadfoot,
Apparently he is referring to 5G technology.
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:
Since I wasn't there, I don't know.
Since the bible was written down by man, several years after events were said to have happened, it may be incredibly inaccurate.
Given the many translations over the years, the odds are it is even less factual.
Wasn't Satan/Beelzebub/Lucifer/Abaddon tossed down to Earth in general and not directly to Eden? I thought that was why he turned into a serpent. So he could slither on over and not ruin a good pair of sandals from walking....
No, Yahweh did not lie. As you know, Yahweh is incapable of fibbing.
If you examine the matter, Adam did indeed perish at the moment he tasted the apple. His innocence died.
A darn good thing too or none of us would be here. Right?
He could not reproduce when he did not know he was naked.
What makes you say Yahweh was incapable of sinning when scriptures say he put lies into the prophets?
Regards
DL
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Genesis 3:11-12 wrote:"Who told you that you were naked?” asked the LORD God. “Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”
And the man answered, “The woman whom You gave me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
Irrelevant to the question as either Yahweh or Satan are shown to lie before that point in time.
Rather hypocritical to ignore all the sin before Gen 3.11.
Regards
DL
@Greatest I am,
I still think it was the woman. Who else would it be to bring sin into the world?
We drink because of women
We lust because of women
We fight wars over women
We steal to have things impress women
It is hard to think of a sin that doesn't involve women.
@Greatest I am,
Quote:What makes you say Yahweh was incapable of sinning when scriptures say he put lies into the prophets?
Regards
DL
Got a reference for that? Not say'n it ain’t there, just can’t recall it and would like to know.
@Greatest I am,
Quote:He could not reproduce when he did not know he was naked.
Truly he could have.
Quote:What makes you say Yahweh was incapable of sinning when... he put lies into the prophets.
No, that occurred when Adam and Eve chose on their own to devour the apple. From that moment forward, lies and deceit, along with other matters of wrongdoing, were festering inside the brains/minds/being of all humans. REMEmber, according to the teachings, God gave people 'free will'. The prophets were never forced to lie, it was their decision to do so.
@Greatest I am,
Hey DL, you just gonna leave us hang'n?
@Leadfoot,
I think he's currently being smug somewhere else. He tends to disappear for weeks on end.
@Greatest I am,
I think people should learn what the words mean and stop making up things to explain what they don't understand.
Sin, singular, is the absence of spirit. Adam had a spirit but it died and so he was unable to bequeath a spirit to his offspring. That is why everybody is born in sin, not because Mommy and Daddy did the big nasty. That is why a savior had to die in our place and make it possible to create a new spirit for us.
Sins, plural, are mistakes, such as throwing a dart and missing the bullseye. Christians are baptised into Christ's death, and dead bodies don't commit sins, so sins are not an issue for Christians. There is no more forgiveness. Either you believe in Jesus and are saved or you don't believe and are lost.
Adam and Eve did not commit sin, they ate a poisonous fruit. God did not punish them, he merely listed the consequences of eating the poisonous fruit.
@Jewels Vern,
Quote:Adam and Eve did not commit sin, they ate a poisonous fruit. God did not punish them, he merely listed the consequences of eating the poisonous fruit.
I agree with the direction you’re going in, but where did you get the idea that the fruit was poisonous?
The way I read it, God told them the consequences and they accepted the terms. They must have decided that eternal life in ignorance was not for them. Personally, I think God was hoping they’d make that decision. The story would not be very interesting otherwise.
@Leadfoot,
Quote:I agree with the direction you’re going in, but where did you get the idea that the fruit was poisonous?
God said "In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt die."
Mommy tells baby don't touch the stove because it will hurt. Baby touches the stove and gets hurt. Is that a sin against Mommy? Is the hurt a punishment inflicted by Mommy? Is Mommy evil because she kept a hot stove even though she knew it could hurt baby?
Let's get real, ok?
@Jewels Vern,
I’m in favor of real.
Baby says 'Damn that hurt, but it was worth it.'
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I still think it was the woman. Who else would it be to bring sin into the world?
We drink because of women
We lust because of women
We fight wars over women
We steal to have things impress women
It is hard to think of a sin that doesn't involve women.
So, because men sin for women, women are the sinners.
Wow.
Thanks.
I will just leave that there.
Satan did not lie to Eve then and Yahweh did not lie to Adam to you, even though they had the same message. Right?
Regards
DL
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