It’s all about fear, that’s how the ruling classes keep the populace in check.
Ok, so you just love God and don't want to disappoint Him out of love?
Quote:If you want to go all reductionist, yeah.Ok, so you just love God and don't want to disappoint Him out of love?
What other motivation could one possibly have when facing his literal creator who went through the effort that God is said to have gone through for us?
That’s the trouble with discussing theology. Half the people will think you are certifiable for saying you know God and the other half will think you’re trying to be ‘holier than thou' and bragging about it. And there is always the occasional one who thinks you’re just attention seeking.
You emphasize 'Faith' a lot. If 'Faith' is so important, how do you keep it after it becomes unnecessary? Doesn’t it have to at some point?
Every time you perceive anything with your senses, you have to have faith that what you are perceiving is real and not an illusion. You might take such faith for granted, but it is faith nonetheless.
Good reminder. I had forgotten about those who think you’re just pulling their chain. FWIW, I’m not. If I sound flip, it’s because I’ve grown weary of cliche 'religious' answers that tell us we'll never be able to understand an infinite God.
Quote:Every time you perceive anything with your senses, you have to have faith that what you are perceiving is real and not an illusion. You might take such faith for granted, but it is faith nonetheless.
Yes, of course it is. I’m assuming that we have gotten past the point where we have that kind of 'faith'. I have faith that my car will still be in the garage unless someone has taken it because I saw it there yesterday. Let us not belabor that point.
But what about the 'faith' we have in purely mental ideas? I had faith that electrons would flow and the room would be visible when I turned the light switch on. I require no care ,effort or ceremony to maintain that faith. I have never seen, felt or smelled an electron, yet that 'faith' remains unshakable. If I were to go about expressing my faith in that to others, they would think I may be a bit unstable.
That is the situation I find myself in with God. His existence is so profoundly evident that I don’t understand the need for faith or debate about it. The only question in my mind is - Now what? Other than the 'Christian' answer to 'obey" and the Muslim answer to 'submit', no one seems willing to actually reason with the question.
Yes, there is always the possibility that I have a mental illness and all my conclusions are a result of that, but I’m assuming we have moved on from there. At least I have.
I really do appreciate the effort you make to understand what I’m saying, but when I make the same effort to understand your words, I can’t help but think we’re not talking about the same thing.
I liked that part about things taken for granted not necessarily being true.
That pretty well encapsulates how I feel about most religious dogma. And society’s as well. So, I’m surprised that you would suggest I hesitate to question things. Faith included.
the mind knows on some level that whatever goes unspoken can't be questioned, and it knows that questioning arouses doubt, so it tries to escape from the need for affirmative faith by avoiding doubt/questioning;
What you should do is question things in a way that leads to greater understanding and not just toward rejection.
We were discussing my 'faith' , and why I didn’t feel the need to 'tend it'.
My apologies if you were not implying here that I might be afraid to question it.
Quote:What you should do is question things in a way that leads to greater understanding and not just toward rejection.
Should I stop beating my wife too? But you were not implying that I’m just being a negative nelly or anything?
Am I being too thin skinned?
It's as if people know that all they are working with are lies, so they avoid questioning because they are afraid the lies will dissolve in the light.
Quote:It's as if people know that all they are working with are lies, so they avoid questioning because they are afraid the lies will dissolve in the light.
Oh jeez, double down why don’t ya.
I was trying to discuss Theology asshole, Not either one of us.
Greatest I am wrote:
Why and how does knowledge kill us?
16And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
So it sounds like it is saying that if he only ate from all the other trees, he would know only good; but if he eats from the tree of knowledge of good AND evil, then he will surely die.
In other words, it's saying that there are lots of good choices, but also bad choices; so if you don't avoid the bad, it's going to cause you problems, regardless of how much good you do as well.
Ever heard the expression it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bushel?
Quote:If a god has to lie to anyone, then his plan is already off the rails.
To think that god is good while ignoring his evil liar side is not possible in a dualistic world.
Place no ones name above Yahweh for evil.
Go logos and not mythos for a better view.
Please clarify. You mean logos as in letter of the word? i.e., 'Thou shall not lie' and therefore any lie is 'evil', QED - God is evil?
I can understand such absolutism, but never personally had the desire or need to go there. If that is where you are, I’d like to know how you got there. If not, back to first question.
It's a Gnostic argument, "God" is the Demiurge.
Most Gnostics don't see the Demiurge as evil, merely misguided and an essential part to the plan.
The OP claims to be Gnostic but acts more like a cult leader.
That is what I’m trying to figure out about DL's encounter with 'God'.
I can see how it might affect anyone that way if they are determined to get close.
My impression is that it can go either way, the 'fear of God' either leaves you awestruck or terrified at that hideous strength. I still don’t know which way he went. Some people are awestruck by raw power, even if it is evil.
He does sound pretty certain of himself, and cults are usually led by such.
[q "not one (sparrow) will fall to the ground outside your Father's care" (Matthew 10:29)
I know, there’s far more reputable sources onGnosticism out there.
You forget that Adam and Eve could not know that the other trees were good as they did not have any knowledge of good and evil.
Christianity, as shown by the tree of good and evil, is a dualistic thinking religion.
Here you are trying to take the Yin out of Yin and Yang.
Quote:The easiest way to think about the 'fear of God,' is to pick some natural occurrence that humans have no control over, such as a storm or flood, and then think about how to respond to that
Transferring that fear to something else misses the point for me. The only earthly equivalent that comes to mind is how I approached my first race car or airplane as a student. I had a kind of love and reverence for them but also a fear knowing that if I failed to understand what I was dealing with, it could be fatal.
The other kind of fear of God I have is knowing the extreme lengths he will go to in letting me find my own way. It’s both scary and humbling that He would have that much respect for me.