Is Evangelization equal to Cultural Genocide?

real life wrote:

" I love my sin and I will not quit . " Look yourself in the mirror and tell it like it is.

aha !

so all non christians are sinners ???

and the nazis... being the nice christians next door they undoubtedly were... are perfectly sin less samaritans?

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brahmin wrote:

real life wrote:
" I love my sin and I will not quit . " Look yourself in the mirror and tell it like it is.

aha !

so all non christians are sinners ???

and the nazis... being the nice christians next door they undoubtedly were... are perfectly sin less samaritans?

aha ! Did a light bulb just go off in your head to make you realize this? Did you gesture dramatically as you said this?

Yes all non Christians are definitely sinners.

Also, Christians are definitely sinners, but as they draw closer to God they do not love their sin and they desire to be free of it.

If you have proof of Hitler,Goebbels, Mengele , etc being believing Christians and actually trying to live a Christian life, why don't you offer it instead of trying to broadbrush?

Just because they were born European does not make them "Christians" any more than being raised in Soviet Russia would automatically make one an atheist.

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real life wrote:

Yes all non Christians are definitely sinners.

expect no more answers - i dont waste my time trying to convince religious bigots and zealots.

gandhi is a sinner eh,.... for the felony of not being christian ???
malcom X - a sinner cos he was not christian ???

all other nice honest men are sinners?

einstein, feynman ???

god damn !!!

you could have told us long back that you are a book-worm (the other kind) - and no one would have wasted their time.

PS - your maintaining that all criminals who are christians by birth arnt christians cos they commited a crime - isnt unlike muslims denying that bin laden is a muslim. but if your machiavelian theory does hold - then all those missionries who kill around (or sanction their side kicks to kill around) to spread (er...open the victim and shove) the gospel, are the least christian of them all !! makes perfect sense.

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This topic is getting into the realms of the absurd. I'm beginning to wish I never created it.

Brahmin, what the Heck are you smoking? How can you advocate the murder of all missionaries when it is very likely that not all missionaries are anything like the violent bastards of society that we have seen throughout history?

How can you advocate forcefully stopping people from preaching what they believe in?

Freedom of Speech is very valuable, which is why it should be used to convince people that Evangelism is wrong (if you believe it is tantamount to cultural genocide, that is).

Life is far more important than ideals. Expression is equally important as variety.

Obviously, without variety of religion and culture, variety of ideals takes a nosedive. It isn't wiped out completely, but the variety decreases. Hence, it is imperative that we maintain variety of religion and culture and even if the old religions die, it is imperative to ensure that aspects of that religion are maintained in the culture to keep up variety.

Perhaps I should have argued that active conversion of one religion to another is merely a subtle form of intolerance of other religions.

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well looking at the fact that the celts, norse, asatru, maya, wicca, aztec, red indians religions, maori, australian religions, hellenism, druidism, mithraism .... all have now been reduced to museum relics -- its high time that proselytysing was stopped.

or are you trying to tell me that all those people were converted by preching alone?

what will you know... ha !!

an inquisition and cultural genocide was never attempted upon your people.

yes missionaries deserve to be liquidated. but as in everything - prevention is better than cure - so they should be banned.

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

This topic is getting into the realms of the absurd. I'm beginning to wish I never created it.

Brahmin, what the Heck are you smoking? How can you advocate the murder of all missionaries when it is very likely that not all missionaries are anything like the violent bastards of society that we have seen throughout history?

How can you advocate forcefully stopping people from preaching what they believe in?

Freedom of Speech is very valuable, which is why it should be used to convince people that Evangelism is wrong (if you believe it is tantamount to cultural genocide, that is).

Life is far more important than ideals. Expression is equally important as variety.

Obviously, without variety of religion and culture, variety of ideals takes a nosedive. It isn't wiped out completely, but the variety decreases. Hence, it is imperative that we maintain variety of religion and culture and even if the old religions die, it is imperative to ensure that aspects of that religion are maintained in the culture to keep up variety.

Perhaps I should have argued that active conversion of one religion to another is merely a subtle form of intolerance of other religions.

Hi Wolf,

It should be obvious from Brahmin's rants that all points of view are NOT equally valuable or valid.

It is helpful to society to eliminate invalid points of view such as Brahmin's "march 'em to the ovens" belief system.

While "variety" sounds nice, I value "sanity" more.

Some ideals, such as his, are better off without representation.

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and your idea describing einstein, gandhi and dalai lama as sinners is excellent ?

till now no one has been able to justify the cultural genocide of the people i listed - cos it cant be justified. i do get a feeling, however, that holocaust deniers and such like, do find it ( the culrural genocide) as no crime at all.

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real life wrote:

Hi Wolf,

It should be obvious from Brahmin's rants that all points of view are NOT equally valuable or valid.

It is helpful to society to eliminate invalid points of view such as Brahmin's "march 'em to the ovens" belief system.

While "variety" sounds nice, I value "sanity" more.

Some ideals, such as his, are better off without representation.

Well, Brahmin is going to the extremes here.

Though I share his disgust at the thought of evangelism, I myself would never take the steps he does. So I'd better put a little stub post here to attempt to change the topic away from the direction Brahmin seems to be dragging it towards.

These questions are to help direct the topic away from Brahmin's bizarre extremism.

Is Evangelism the result of a group's intolerance to other religions?
Is Evangelism necessary?
Is Evangelism equal to destruction of Freedom of Speech in the fact that it helps to erode the member-base of alternative viewpoints?

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Well, Brahmin is going to the extremes here.

Though I share his disgust at the thought of evangelism,

yes i am going to excesses.... and if you re-read my posts from the beginning then you will notice that my disgust for evangelism (at which point i said they merit a ban) has given way to my utter disgust for a group of devout people (represented very well here by one such) who in their tunnel visioned devotion choose to complete ignore/deny the irreparable damage that missionaries cause (at which point i started venting BOTH disgusts, as clearly noticable in the increase in er.. dosage)

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Is Evangelism the result of a group's intolerance to other religions?
Is Evangelism necessary?
Is Evangelism equal to destruction of Freedom of Speech in the fact that it helps to erode the member-base of alternative viewpoints?

1st Q > its the other way round. "a group's intolerance for other gruops" is the result of evagelism, esp. when done with a "at all costs" attitude, which is 99% of the time the case.. as vindicated by the complete wiping out of UKW.

2nd Q> not a bit. those who want to convert will convert regardless. if something needs hardselling, & forcing down the throat, it aint all that good.

3rd Q > tell me.. is a law prohibiting poaching, a law prohibiting murder, a law prohibiting child porn......equal to the destruction of freedom? NO. it is equal to the destruction of "freedoms' of these kinds alone.

freedom should not extend to domains where it causes damage to humans or enviorn.

even the freest of countries arnt free to dump nuclear waste.

similarly, a ban of the evil thats evangelism (lets remember and accept here, that evangelism is never quite merely evangelism... it is = all the methods and measures, including merciless killing, that are untertaken as a means to achieve the missionary end) doesn't mean a total ban on free speech. it means a ban on just that kind of speech. just like there is a ban on racially abusive speech.

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

real life wrote:
Hi Wolf,

It should be obvious from Brahmin's rants that all points of view are NOT equally valuable or valid.

It is helpful to society to eliminate invalid points of view such as Brahmin's "march 'em to the ovens" belief system.

While "variety" sounds nice, I value "sanity" more.

Some ideals, such as his, are better off without representation.

Well, Brahmin is going to the extremes here.

Though I share his disgust at the thought of evangelism, I myself would never take the steps he does. So I'd better put a little stub post here to attempt to change the topic away from the direction Brahmin seems to be dragging it towards.

These questions are to help direct the topic away from Brahmin's bizarre extremism.

Is Evangelism the result of a group's intolerance to other religions?
Is Evangelism necessary?
Is Evangelism equal to destruction of Freedom of Speech in the fact that it helps to erode the member-base of alternative viewpoints?

Hi Wolf,

Unfortunately Brahmins extreme views are, in his mind, a logical progression from the thesis that has been proposed. So this post will also probably fall on his deaf ears. However, others may freely agree, disagree or discuss at will.

Q3--All viewpoints are not equally valid. That much is clear from listening to Brahmin.

When a person chooses one viewpoint , he must necessarily reject other viewpoints which contradict it.

Are we destroying Freedom of Speech by not becoming adherents to Brahmin's religion of revenge, and thus eroding the member base of his potential adherents? If we convince one of his disciples, a Brahminite, to turn from revenge and plotting for murder, are we destroying Freedom of Speech ? I think the answers are self evident.

Q2-- It is human nature to seek truth. It is also human nature to speak one's mind and to persuade others to see things as we do.

Therefore , evangelism and persuasion in the realm of ideas and beliefs is more than just necessary . It is inevitable. You can no better keep humans from sharing ideas than you can keep the sun from rising.

Q1-- See Q2

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real life wrote:

Brahmin's religion of revenge,

hahahahha !!!

i just want to see all the criminals shot to oblivion - that includes nazis, missionaries, and jehadis

man you aint too different from that michael are you ??

i guess bigotry makes people blind to the holocausts, genocides and general carnage that people of their faith practised or continue to do so.

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er.. here's the list of modus-operandi of the er.. "evangelists" -

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm

also note Luke 19.27.

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so much for "brahmin's religion of revenge" !!! Smile

pot
kettle
black

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brahmin wrote:

pot
kettle
black

Can you quote when I have ever even suggested using murder, torture, etc ??

You cannot.

I can quote you openly advocating these things on several posts.

I think you anger is misplaced, as most of the people you are upset with have been dead at least 100-1000 years or more.

Time to come to the 21st century, my friend.

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YOU havent.

but in the above post, you urself confess tacitly that it used to happen big time.
i can corroborate its happening in goa, i confess i have never been to latin america or pre-christian europe.

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brahmin wrote:

YOU havent.

Thank you. This is progress. Let's take it a step further. Is anybody alive today committing the acts to which you refer?

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murder no.

not in india at least.

deceit yes. all over.

till recently in australia (and perhaps usa, though i am not going to believe something i read in forums so easily) they had the concept of ensuring that the infant native grew up in a christian family or some variation of that.

and "carrots" are a different issue. i had started a thread on that here, but it was deleted due to a flare up in its last 4-5 posts, between me and another guy.

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brahmin wrote:

murder no.

not in india at least.

deceit yes. all over.

till recently in australia (and perhaps usa, though i am not going to believe something i read in forums so easily) they had the concept of ensuring that the infant native grew up in a christian family or some variation of that.

and "carrots" are a different issue. i had started a thread on that here, but it was deleted due to a flare up in its last 4-5 posts, between me and another guy.

So do we have an admission from you that there are no Christian groups today using murder or torture as a method to "force" conversion to Christianity?

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not that i know of.. not today... not in india. yes.

allurement, deceit (the screwing up of history, poisioning of one's mind against their own religion, making claims like "hinduism is all abut sati"... like thay had the celts believe that ritual sacrifice was central to their religion), and offerning conditional "carrots" to people who are destitutes - ie. taking advantage of person's plight by offering conditional help to get milage (conversion) - yes.

though the two means - the one thats no longer there (force) and the one i mentioned above, are indeed different and the 2nd not violent at all - the ends achieved are pretty much the same - the slow and sure cultural genocide of a people or at the very least upsetting of the social fabric of the society.

so i am still opposed to evagelisation - cos it leads to social genocide as asked in the thread title.

er.. i suppose you meant that "religion of revenge" bit... whatever did u mean?

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Is Evangelization equal to Cultural Genocide?

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