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Sat 25 Jun, 2005 06:57 am
Now before we get this little discussion under way, let me talk about what I mean when I say Evangelization.
I mean it in the sense of converting people from one religion to another, and so that Christians don't feel personally attacked, I'm not limiting this discussion to conversion to Christianity. Conversion to Islam, conversion to Judaism, conversion to Buddhism, conversion to Hinduism, conversion to those freaky sects you always find in American airports, any conversion from one religion or cult to another in mass numbers, you name it, we'll discuss it here.
Personally, I see this conversion business as cultural genocide. What more could we say it is? It is the attempt to actively destroy other religions from other cultures.
Is this destruction of culture? I say it is.
I'm an agnostic, so I'm not sure about the existence of God and I believe we can never be sure about His existence or the true nature of His Existence.
However, for this discussion, I will have to assume He does exist, because we are dealing with His very nature here.
There are millions of people all over the world. Let's say they were all to meet you, the reader. I'm sure quite a lot of people will have the same impression of you and what you like, but others will get a different impression of you. Not everyone will say the same thing about you and not everyone will have the same ideas about you.
The same must be true for God. Everyone that thinks He exists and worships him, does not dispute His existence. They may all have differeing opinions on Him, though, and how He would like to be worshipped. The Christians pray one way, the Jews pray another, the Muslims yet another, the Hindus another, the Buddhists another.
Some, like the Hindus, believe there are many gods but they are in effect all one God.
So it is possible all these people are worshipping the same God but in their different way. These ways form a part of their culture and makes them what they are. Conversion to a religion may destroy this.
I have to go right now, but perhaps you would like to argue or present some of your thoughts in the mean time.
Re: Is Evangelization equal to Cultural Genocide?
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:I have to go right now, but perhaps you would like to argue or present some of your thoughts in the mean time.
A mean time is exactly what might be expected in the wake of your post.
yes its a sure attempt to socio-cultural genocide.
maybe one conversions here or there, dont bring about a sweeping change in any society, but then "little drops of water and little grains of sand...."
so bit by bit, step by step, it results in socio-cultural genocide.
i want to point out here that i am not opposed to the idea of Self-Induced conversion one bit. if someone wants to convert from X to Y, he or she should feel most free to do so.
i am however opposed to the idea of people from religions X or Y or Z, trying to convert OTHERS to their religion. if god wanted the others to be of religion X/Y/Z, then he/she would be born an X or a Y or a Z.
evangalisation kills of the culture at the receiving end of the conversion.
today there arnt very many people, if any, precticing the religions and beliefs of the mayas and the aztecs and incas. or druidism & wicca & asatru & odinism.
and that is a sad and irreversible loss to humanity and to the socio- cultural heritage of the world.
brahmin wrote: today there arnt very many people, if any, precticing the religions and beliefs of the mayas and the aztecs and incas. or druidism & wicca & asatru & odinism.
and that is a sad and irreversible loss to humanity and to the socio- cultural heritage of the world.
Do you seriously wish to see these religions practiced to the full? That
is scary.
i certainly dont want the socio-cultural heritage of the world to be wiped out.
whats so scary eh?
they are/were people as much as anyone else.
they had their faults and their plusses.
they lived, they died.
if some unacceptable aspects had crept up in their way of life, then it would get weeded out sooner or later.
today its sad to see the people who are the descendants of the great incas and the mayas etc. to have, no connection with their rich cultural heritage and instead try out a way of life and belief system which is totally alien to them.
OK, I agree, so long as they don't take me captive and cut out my heart. That would be a bummer!
like i said, those lunatic aspects would get weeded out sooner or later.
these unacceptable aspects ALWAYS creep in isolation, are are CENTRAL to NO religion or way of life, (except perhaps the out and out cannibals in intermost jungles, certainly not to the religions of civilizations that produced the machu pichu and such like) - after some interection with other cultures they'd realise that they were doing something generally held unaceptable by himans all over and chuck the practices of cutting out hearts and similar.
getting rid of their age old religion lock, stock and barrel, just 'cos of a few anomalies, is like getting rid of a headache - by cutting off the head.
there clearly are better ways to weed ill practices out. europe too, just gave up the inquisition and pogroms and heretic burnings - without chucking their religion isnt it?
more over, if they (aztecs etc) did take people captive and chop of heads with a vengence, its more because thats the best way they knew how to fend off the iberian invaders. ofcourse the iberians, then have had the whole world believe that the incas and mayas know nothing better than cutting our hearts and heads, and its these acts of blodshed which are the pillars of their religion blah blah.. hence they need to be "civilized" blah blah !!
You mean the al geezers will stop suicide bombing if we just let them interact with our culture? Who wants to go first?
yes they will.... just leave them well alone.
and possibly somehow try and open up their media (internet?).. so that they know that in most other parts of the world suicide bombings arnt a part of life... and then realise their mistake in indulging in the same.
but then, 'al geezers' are not a "civilization", like the maya and aztec... so the previous para may not quite apply
brahmin wrote:yes they will.... just leave them well alone.
and possibly somehow try and open up their media (internet?).. so that they know that in most other parts of the world suicide bombings arnt a part of life... and then realise their mistake in indulging in the same.
but then, 'al geezers' are not a "civilization", like the maya and aztec... so the previous para may not quite apply
The folks to whom you are referring are well aware of our 'peaceful' lifestyle and find its hedonism unacceptable. In fact, isn't it their goal to convert
us by force if necessary?
The al geezers I was referring to are the militant old folk in the home across the street.
i know about those people.
as i pointed out, they arnt exactly "civilizations" and there's very little thats "civilized" about their lifestyle.
so i pointed out that, the paragraph may not apply to them.
my main concern are the real victims of evangelism - the civilizations (or at least, the lesser perfectly acceptable belief systems) and their accompanying religions and/or ways of life... like those of mayas and aztecs and the druids and hellenics.
its a very sad loss to the world that these exist only in books and museums today
brahmin wrote: its a very sad loss to the world that these exist only in books and museums today
I agree. I'm sorry. I've just been trying to mess up your head. It is a sad thing when we lose valuable cultural and linguistic resources.
I contend that it is never sad when we free ourselves from the excesses of the priesthood, regardless of the underlying religion.
neologist wrote:
I agree. ... It is a sad thing when we lose valuable cultural and linguistic resources.
cheers to that !
neologist wrote:
I contend that it is never sad when we free ourselves from the excesses of the priesthood, regardless of the underlying religion.
yes ... and we can, rather could have, always get rid of the excesses of proesthood and other excesses and fringe lunatic practices without getting rid of the whole religion - as we irreparably did in so many cases.
I hate to get involved in another religious thread so I will Just speak my piece and be on my way. The reasoning behind the proselytizing religions indulge in is what turns me off, and by the way it is also the spark that sets off genocide, massacres, war and all the other carnage one can lay at the feet of religion.
It is the intolerance that each religion teaches and the attitude that mine is the true religion and all others are false.
Active proselytizing should be considered hate speech and considered a crime.
i second that to the hilt.
I've created a featured thread? How'd that happen?
Oh well...
Anyway, I'm just posting to say that although I promised to say more in my last post, I think I've written about everything I have to say so far in this topic already. I've run out of steam in any case.
Well, let's see if we can add more wood to the fire.
brahmin wrote:yes its a sure attempt to socio-cultural genocide.
maybe one conversions here or there, dont bring about a sweeping change in any society, but then "little drops of water and little grains of sand...."
so bit by bit, step by step, it results in socio-cultural genocide.
i want to point out here that i am not opposed to the idea of Self-Induced conversion one bit. if someone wants to convert from X to Y, he or she should feel most free to do so.
i am however opposed to the idea of people from religions X or Y or Z, trying to convert OTHERS to their religion. if god wanted the others to be of religion X/Y/Z, then he/she would be born an X or a Y or a Z.
evangalisation kills of the culture at the receiving end of the conversion.
today there arnt very many people, if any, precticing the religions and beliefs of the mayas and the aztecs and incas. or druidism & wicca & asatru & odinism.
and that is a sad and irreversible loss to humanity and to the socio- cultural heritage of the world.
So let me clarify your position. Are you opposed to any attempts by individuals to persuade others to hold to a different opinion in religious matters?
Then what are you doing on this board?
[/quote]
So let me clarify your position. Are you opposed to any attempts by individuals to persuade others to hold to a different opinion in religious matters?
Then what are you doing on this board?[/quote]
hehehehe
real life
Is that what you believe the object of this thread is, to proselytize?
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