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Who's the biggest waste of talent?(re:Tyson)

 
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 06:53 pm
Re: Tyson. Sure, he was an unsavory character in a corrupt, totally corrupt "sport." But when he was good, when he could come out and throw that first punch in the first round and either end the fight right then or strike fear and dread into his opponent... he was probably one of the best boxers ever. But once he lost that edge, and the fight would drag on into the mid-rounds, he was pretty avearge. That analysis comes from one of my employees, who is a bit of a boxing fan. Would you agree with that, Slappy?
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 07:08 pm
I thought of Len Bias, too.

(And welcome, Mr. B, any friend of Dag's is a friend of ours...)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 07:52 pm
Another basketball one -- Rony Seikaly was great in college, seemed like he would go far. Nope.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:49 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
Re: Tyson. Sure, he was an unsavory character in a corrupt, totally corrupt "sport." But when he was good, when he could come out and throw that first punch in the first round and either end the fight right then or strike fear and dread into his opponent... he was probably one of the best boxers ever. But once he lost that edge, and the fight would drag on into the mid-rounds, he was pretty avearge. That analysis comes from one of my employees, who is a bit of a boxing fan. Would you agree with that, Slappy?


Yes, and I think he lost that "edge" because he's as emotionally stable as....I can't think of anyone that low to compare him to. If he had half a brain, some heart, focus, ect., he could have been dominant longer than he was, IMO. I mean, the guy just GAVE UP to some clown.

Fun fact: McBride lost to a fighter, who's career record is 1-17. His one win was against McBride. Just to give you some insight on how bad of a fighter just beat Mike Tyson.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 12:18 am
I think when you say "waste of talent" it doesn't mean injuries. It measn the guy screwing up becasue of drugs or just plain orneriness.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 12:40 am
Greg Page.

He was larger than Ali, and in the amateurs, about as fast.

When he turned pro, he had a decent career, but he was never in shape. He was always fat. And his speed went with his added avoidupois.

If Greg Page could have stayed in shape, he would have been champion for a long time.

For what it is worth, Strawberry and Gooden both had pretty long careers. They wasted some of their career, but overall they made a big splash.
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Stray Cat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 12:44 pm
hmmm.....I'd have to say Jose Canseco. I remember hearing about him years ago, I think he was with the Baltimore Orioles then, that he had the potential to become one of the great ball players of all time.

But apparently, he was a real assy arrogant guy, getting in trouble here and there, then grading traded a couple of times. He finally fell off the radar screen altogether.

I wonder if anyone still remembers him much? Frankly, I'm surprised I remembered him.
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 02:42 pm
Quote:
Jose Canseco.

I wonder if anyone still remembers him much? Frankly, I'm surprised I remembered him.

you must be thinking of someone else, Stray Cat.
Canseco's been in all over the news this year -- hawking his book, and testifying/lying at the congressional hearing on steroids...





(are are you being facetious??!!)
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 02:56 pm
Roundballers:

JR (Isaiah) Rider.

Roy Tarpley.

And who was that lefty roundballer from USC who won the NBA dunk contest and then drifted out of the league -- people called him Baby Jordan? Can't even remember the loser's name.

And beisbol: Steve Howe. Ramon Martinez.



Sometimes, though, I think a lot of kids with talent get a lot of expectations laid on them to do something they're just not really interested in. I played ball with a guy in high school -- he wouldn't have been an NBA star or anything, but pretty much all of the coaches in the league tagged him as the most talented player they'd ever seen come through. He could dominate a game without even breaking a sweat. He got recruiting letters that he never even bothered to answer.

Thing is, he just wasn't that interested in basketball, and REALLY wasn't interested in busting his ass for shrieking coaches. Last I saw of him he came of the bench to drain seven 3s in about 10 minutes of a juco game. A waste, I suppose, but he just didn't get any pleasure out of the game.
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Stray Cat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 04:03 pm
Actually, no Region. I had heard about his book, but wasn't aware it had gotten that much coverage. In fact, I'd heard that many of the other ball players (on the O's, the A's) whom Canseco wrote about in his book had denied ever using steriods. I figured it was just more assy behavior from Canseco and his attempt to make a little money.

Didn't realize it was such a big story. I'd still say his career is pretty much down the drain though, and has been for some time.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 04:18 pm
Canseco had a decent career. Not quite Hall of Fame worthy, but he put up some good numbers and was a good all around player for a while. I don't think he was a waste of talent, because he never did anything I can think of to ruin what he had going for him.
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 07:20 pm
Quote:
And who was that lefty roundballer from USC who won the NBA dunk contest and then drifted out of the league -- people called him Baby Jordan? Can't even remember the loser's name.

harold miner
(hadda look it up...)
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 09:58 pm
Tony Ayala.

He was 19 and the number one middleweight contender when he was convicted of rape and sentenced to 17 years.

When he got out at 37, he was well on his way to a comeback, a championship shot was being mentioned, when he was convicted of sexual assault again.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 10:04 pm
Micheal Ray Richardson.

He was an outstanding NBA guard in the eighties, served a suspension for cocaine, came back and went back on the stuff again.

Got thrown out of the league.

Some time later, he was arrested for drugs in the Mercedes he was living in, which was parked in front of the house he had just lost due to foreclosure.

Last I read, he had cleaned up his act and was doing quite well as a coach in Europe.
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jun, 2005 02:19 pm
Back to boxing for a couple of comments. One of my employees follows the sport quite closely; to the point of ponying up pay-per-view money with some of his friends. One of the guys in his band fights on the amateur level (which is, to johnboy, a bit whimsical, since their band is made up of a bunch of Goths). Anyway Andy showed up today with a book he is reading. Some of the collected writings by someone whose name is something like Liebering. He started writing for the New Yorker in 1935 and died in 1963. Andy wasn't familiar with the New Yorker and how great a magazine it was in its heyday. Most of the non-fiction stories about boxing date back to the 1950's.
The writer repeatedly made the comment that what killed boxing (if boxing has been killed) was not the perceived corruption or the proliferation of sanctioning bodies, but rather television. The number of gyms in NYC shrank from (I making up these numbers to illustrate the point) 50 to two in less than a decade. And the number of amateur boxers who might could make $50 on a Saturday night, shrank from 2000 to perhaps 100. All because of television. Sure, you had to put with the ads for beer and razor blades to watch on tv, but you didn't have to leave home to actually go to the gym. Interesting.
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