Outrage over Japan's plan to slaughter humpback whales

*sigh* Crazy aunt Tilly, God love 'er...

Ohhhhhhhhhhh!

doink

Thought the cartoon posted was one of the 'racist' ones.

"Yep, the whales the inuits hunt, intelligent beings, almost must jump in the canoes and stab themselves to death. Not much of a threat to the whales. However, the Japanese used the inuit hunts as a tactic. Of course Washington refused their suggestion. Not like Japan needs to kill a thousand whales each season for their nations survival. Ludicrous at best.

It took many years of advocacy and the almost extinction of humpbacks to convince most nations that whales needed protection, not harpoons. I really don't believe the United States will change its whaling policies anytime soon.

Australia has the ball in its court. Your governments given Japan latitude - what else can you do besides shooting them out of the water and that's not an option. There is a ban on industrial whaling".

Progression".

Whale research.
From today's paper.
There have actually been one or two other cartoons published in the Oz media which I chose not to post here. Because they could possibly have been interpreted as rather racist, though I doubt that was the intention ...:

I may have already posted this (I had intended to in the past and don't feel like searching to see if I did) but I honestly think the biggest impediment towards a more reasonable Japanese position on whaling is the fact that they feel so insulted by the way with which the international community (especially Australia, where some xenophobia and racism is a factor on both Japanese and Australian sides) "meddles" in "their" affairs.

I don't happen to think that it's a reasonable position on their part, but if the people who are against it were serious about wanting to save whales there are better ways to go about it.

The cartoons and such here are good examples, the satirical demonization only makes them that much more determined to thumb their noses at the world. It's pride and stupid pride at that but no different from the Australian position that this is a matter of Japanese telling Australia that they are their economic superiors and can do what they want.

This has become a pissing contest (mainly with Australia), and is no closer to resolution as a result. A pity, because the whales are more important than each nation's hubris, nationalism and xenophobic skepticism.

To use an example indigenous to Australia, the demonization of Aboriginal (sorry I forget the more appropriate term at the moment) peoples in regard to sexual abuse was in no way helpful to the actual victims of the abuse.

When you turn something into a culture war, the real morality of the acts go out the window and people just fight for their side. This is what's happening here between proud peoples and the whales are no better off as a result.

I think that the cartoon above is satirizing the "scientific research" taradiddle more than anything else, and I think everybody recognizes that as a nonsense. I do find that very irksome....not that I am questioning your point, especially.

But....nothing else that has happened seems to have had much impact, and the Japanese have been moving forward towards more whaling for some years now.

Do you have a method that you believe might work? You seem to do so...you mention a "better way".

I am assuming you mean some sort of behind the scenes negotiation, but, while I may be wrong, I had thought that had been attempted for years now?????

dlowan wrote:

I think that the cartoon above is satirizing the "scientific research" taradiddle more than anything else, and I think everybody recognizes that as a nonsense. I do find that very irksome....not that I am questioning your point, especially.

Yeah, "scientific research" as a pretext is an obvious one. But it's not the issue. It's just the legal loophole to an environmental treaty. They agreed to the terms with that loophole and they are using it.
Calling it what it is doesn't change that it's a legal loophole they have and are inclined to use. The real issue is over-hunting versus sentimentalists who oppose the hunting altogether.

If Japan had wanted they did not need to sign the treaty at all and could legally tell everyone to pound sand. Other nations like Norway simply objected to the moratorium and hunt away. The fact of the matter is that they agreed to the moratorium and the moratorium's goal is sustainable whaling while the opposition largely comes from the mega-fauna emotional appeal.

Quote:

But....nothing else that has happened seems to have had much impact, and the Japanese have been moving forward towards more whaling for some years now.

As the whale population grew. They believe that population levels have reached sustainable points. The difference of opinion that matters is whether we have reached sustainable levels. All the emotional appeals merely cloud the issue.

Quote:

Do you have a method that you believe might work? You seem to do so...you mention a "better way".

Yeah, the same thing that worked the first time. Logical conservationist arguments. At this point it may be too late for logic and the fires of this culture war may just need to die out before reason sets in.

Hopefully no whales species will as well while each side finds their heads.

Quote:

I am assuming you mean some sort of behind the scenes negotiation, but, while I may be wrong, I had thought that had been attempted for years now?????

I don't think calm behind-the-scenes negotiations will overcome the animosity from the emotional appeals and cultural attacks.

Quite frankly I think the solution is for the more nutty folk to shut up on both sides and that's not something you can control.

So from a practical point of view as a democratic government I don't think there are great alternatives. But if the involved communities themselves could come to their senses it would be resolved in short order and we could then focus on individuals and corporations who, for profit, would push the limits.

But you don't get a country to reign in it's nuts by calling them all nuts. Since Australia is a democracy your leaders will have problems being reasonable if their constituency isn't.

The same applies to Japan. The more shrill the criticism the more political capital it takes to take a strong conservationist position.

This is one of the unfortunate situations in democracy where it has to come bottom-up instead of top-down and where the majority of the bottom on each side isn't as reasonable as their tops.

I have an idea. Let the whaling community sell licenses and tags. Set seasons. Hold a lottery. Make a ton of money for research while knowing exactly how many whales were legally taken, and control what kinds of whales are taken.

It really is that simple. It works here in the U.S. for game management as well as everywhere else it's been tried. You just have to remember, some guy with a gun or harpoon isn't necessarily a hunter or fisherman. If he doesn't follow the rules he's a poacher - and you need to not blame the innocent.

Fair enough.


I have to say I am as "nuts" as anyone.


I hate seeing intelligent, complex, social creatures subject to agonizing death for no good reason. Especially wild creatures. There is no quick death for these poor animals.


I'd like the hunters to feel the pain they inflict.


But who am I to comment? I am sure the fish I eat do not enjoy their deaths...and the free range chooks no doubt resent having their heads cut off.


Still.......I do want whaling to END.

As the great Fred Bear said, "If you're not working to protect hunting, you're working to end it".

We'll all join Fred in the big hunt, before too long.

Of course your idea would be simple if a global authority like the UN had the kind of authority countries like the US object to....

cjhsa wrote:

As the great Fred Bear said, "If you're not working to protect hunting, you're working to end it".

We'll all join Fred in the big hunt, before too long.

That kind of simplistic bi-lateral reasoning is almost always wrong, and is wrong here once again.

There is not just two sides to almost any issue and this isn't an exception.