Outrage over Japan's plan to slaughter humpback whales

cjhsa wrote:

What I've been saying all along is that hunters and fisherman, especially in the U.S., are the original conservationists and have been for the last 100 years. We are the stewards of wildlife. Hands off approaches will not work.

Hmm, you might find it disgusting that I mention here and now
this list in Wiki ... ...

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Hands off approaches will not work"???? Neither does overkill, wolves , cougars, passenger pigeons , heath hens, all were hunted out of existence, and
"maybe the original counts were wrong" These counts of minkes may, if anything , be low, because theyve been done using a genetic "Lincoln Index" approach. They look at genetic diversity and, applying a nominal count from existing whale populations, they then can see that low numbers of varaiants should be at a certain place , but are gone. Its the same analogy used in doing capture and release types of counting except they use genetics

As far as hunters being the best conservationists, I generally agree that its been the "Ducks Unlimited" and "Wildlife Fed" and the local groups of hunters that have been conservationists, but more and more, large tracts of land are only available to those who can afford it and they leave the "management" to the landowners. I had a black cat killed just before the holidays by goose hunters I let on my land , were still devastated by this act. You think Im going to let ANY hunters in this area again? My land is officially closed to anybody. I
reported them to the cops and am in the process of pressing charges.
I get out in the woods and wild areas on my work, and Ive seen so many acts of pure wanton meanness by hunters , that Im beginning to rethink my original stand. I think that hunters , like Siddarjhis, once they draw their weapons, must kill something and whether its game or someones livestock or pets, they dont seem to have any connection with "conservation". They wanna kill.

Cj, you opened my eyes by posting that Nooge site and its attendent pbb. Most of those guys sounded like REAL WHACKO NUTS, not responsible hunters.

I quit hunting years ago because I almost got shot by some a hole deer hunter. I took it up only in the last few years for small game and goose cause I missed the flavor. Now, experiencing loss of a pet cat (who I saved from a building 3 years ago and was one of my early threads on A2K), Im really mad at hunters in general and Ive written a couple op eds about it and have gotten praise from pet owners in the country whove had pets shot and not a little scorn from the "real hunters".

Im beginning to feel that hunting is often associated with mental deficiency, not sportsmanship. SO please ,

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cjhsa wrote:

If you think what I've posted is weird, your problems run much deeper than that.

I'll tell you this, I'm quite positive Ducks Unlimited is none too happy to have their name on that site.

Greenpeace is aligned with PETA who is aligned with ELF and ALF and other known groups and have created the first international ecoterrorist network.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

And the US was aligned with Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks.

Goodness! I guess we can expect you to move out of the country any day, now....

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msolga wrote:

Actually, I made a mistake: A poster this morning suggested that the Berlin whale protest was a PETA initiative. As everyone can see, from later posts, it was actually a Greenpeace initiative. Good for Greenpeace!

My bad. I confused my protest organizations.

I believe the whale was found dead.

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msolga wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
Did you see that PETA left a whale carcass on the Japanese embassy steps in Berlin? LOL!

No, I didn't know about that, DrewDad! What an exercise in logistics that must have been! Photographs?
(BTW, nice to talk to you! I see you around on various threads but don't think we've actually met in any particular thread. Anyway, hello & welcome to the "whale place"! )

Nice kitty!

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Good post, farmerman.

If you mentioned your cat earlier, I missed it -- I started to say "my condolences" but that's a bit stiff, so I'll just say that absolutely sucks and I'm sorry.

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Yes, I'm very sorry about your cat, too.

I've hunted exactly twice. I just don't see the "sport" in it unless one ditches the gun and picks up a thigh bone.

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cjhsa wrote:

Anon-Voter wrote:

I don't think I've ever known someone who gets the thrill out of killing something like you do. It's like it gives you a tremendous hardon of some kind. It's really creepy, almost sadistic.

Anon

Are you saying you get a thrill when these domestic terror "animal rights" folks kill people? Just wondering.

Not at all ... I think they should be put away. I just think you have an unhealthy obsession with killing.

Anon

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Hardly anon. You're probably a person who reads emotion into e-mails.

The Nuge board is filled with some great kindred spirits of mine. Also a few whackos. Kinda like here.

I'm sorry about your cat f-man. Truth is, if I were hunting someone elses land I definitely wouldn't shoot their cat. If I were hunting my own land and a strange cat wandered through, well, that's between me and the cat.

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farmerman wrote:

Cj, you opened my eyes by posting that Nooge site and its attendent pbb. Most of those guys sounded like REAL WHACKO NUTS, not responsible hunters.

I quit hunting years ago because I almost got shot by some a hole deer hunter. I took it up only in the last few years for small game and goose cause I missed the flavor. Now, experiencing loss of a pet cat (who I saved from a building 3 years ago and was one of my early threads on A2K), Im really mad at hunters in general and Ive written a couple op eds about it and have gotten praise from pet owners in the country whove had pets shot and not a little scorn from the "real hunters".

Im beginning to feel that hunting is often associated with mental deficiency, not sportsmanship. SO please ,

Yeah, I found that site an interesting insight, too, farmerman. Seriously weird stuff. Confused

Certainly I didn't get the sense of a community of conservation-minded, responsible sporting types. (understatement!) Another agenda there, entirely.

I'm so sorry about what happened to your pet cat. That's terrible.

Excellent post, btw!

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Ill find the cat chat and post about Lucky, (and some of the statements that the hunters said to me, much like cj. Killing ANY domestic animal on anyones land is makin me think that "conservation" isnt their highest priority.

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farmerman wrote:

Ill find the cat chat and post about Lucky, (and some of the statements that the hunters said to me, much like cj. Killing ANY domestic animal on anyones land is makin me think that "conservation" isnt their highest priority.

Your're absolutely correct, farmerman. Responsible hunters agree - but unfortunately, they've also become an endangered species.

Very sad regarding "Lucky". My sincere condolences.

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Msolga, I didnt want to divert this thread either. My apologies, whats the latest on the "Whale killers"

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Here's a message from expedition leader Shane Rattenbury, to you ocean defenders and all who have been part of the exciting campaign for the last few months:

Logistically we cannot remain in the Southern Ocean any longer, but this certainly isn't the last you'll hear of us.

The 57 crew on both Greenpeace ships want to thank everyone who has supported our work by writing letters of support to newspapers and websites, and also to thank our millions of individual financial supporters around the world. It's thanks to our new faster ship, the Esperanza, that we were able to keep up with the whalers the entire time, and we couldn't have accomplished what we did without that support.

For a month now we have dogged, delayed and disrupted the whaling fleet in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, and have no doubt that they have fallen far behind in their bid to slaughter 935 minke whales and 10 endangered fin whales. It is our hope that this struggle will inspire people to help us defend whales, so that history records it being the last time the peaceful silence in the Sanctuary is broken by the sound of a grenade-tipped harpoon.

Whaling is not just the concern of governments and cryptic political meetings. There is big business involved. While whaling is not profitable, you might be surprised to learn of some famous seafood companies' connections to whaling. We're asking you to help us make the whaling stop.

Many companies outside Japan are owned by, or have contracts with, Nissui, the corporation which owns one third of Kyodo Senpaku, which owns the whaling fleet. We aim to expose exactly how whalers profit from the fish you buy, and demand those companies disassociate themselves from whaling.

Nissui need to know that whaling is bad for business.

When you sign up as an Ocean Defender, we'll send you ongoing information about who these companies are and how you can pressure them.

Already in Argentina, activists have convinced a popular seafood company to cancel contracts with Nissui corporation. In just 2 days over 21,000 cyberactivists contacted the company and downloaded stickers to place on Santa Elena products in supermarkets, to highlight that the company was implicated in the killing of whales.

In the US, we've hit whaler-owned seafood giant Gortons with nearly 40,000 letters from all around the world.

In Europe, Nissui is being hammered with pressure to use its one-third ownership of Kyodo Senpaku to pressure for a shut down of the whaling fleet.

And while we continue to pressure those targets, we're opening a new front with Sealord, a New Zealand-based fishing company that is 50% owned by Nissui. Sealord sells to seafood distributors all over the world, and we'll be targetting products that whalers profit from wherever they're sold. You can send a message to Sealord now.

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stradee posted from greenpeace : "While whaling is not profitable, you might be surprised to learn of some famous seafood companies' connections to whaling."

i would find it hard to believe that there is no profit in the whaling operations. just can't see that a big japanese corporation would go whale hunting without a profit motive. to the best of my knowledge, there is a demand for whale meat in japan and some people are willing to pay a high price for it.
i hope that the hunting can be stoppedd soon. hbg

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hi hamburger ~

Whale operations in themselves are not profitable unless there is a demand other than the Japanese market. Other corporations such as Gorton's purchase whale products from those that hunt whales. Without their support, the Japanese couldn't economically continue whaling.

Thats the reason why we ask people not to purchase products connected to Japanese whaling. If there's no market, then the killing of whales with stop. That, and of course the International communities pressure against whaling operations is also affective.

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farmerman wrote:

Msolga, I didnt want to divert this thread either. My apologies, whats the latest on the "Whale killers"

No reason for apologies, farmerman. I'm very interested in what you had to say about your personal experience of hunters & also what happened as a result of the killing of your cat. Also about the responses your comments received. I have never really understood folk like this, don't know any at all & I'm gaining some insight on who they actually are & what their agenda is. That's thanks to you & cjhsa's Nuge site. Very disturbing stuff.

But I do want to say that no way do I accept that whalers are hunters. Not exactly a fair contest between prey & predator! It's drawing a very long bow to describe the situation in that way. Nor do I believe "scientific research" has anything to do with what the whalers in that Japanese "research" ship were actually doing. I've done numerous Google searches in vain attempts to discover the findings of their supposed research. It is whale meat for the Japanese market, nothing more nothing less. A commercial enterprise.

So do continue what you've started, farmerman. Some of the best exchanges of information at A2K have been the result of diversions. This is a very interesting (& related) one. (Perhaps we should thank cjhsa for this? :wink: ) In any case, there's not much new to report from the Southern Ocean. Greenpeace has left for another region & is now focusing on a campaign to educate consumers about companies involved in profits from Japanese whaling enterprises. Not much new from Sea Shepherd, either. The Australian media has also grown quiet on whaling. So unless something out of the ordinary happens, I doubt there'll be much new to report till the next round of IWC (International Whaling Commission) hearings.

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I think that the overwhelming public support is to stop whaling. Of course there will be a few who, like cj have some unexolainable :moral Imperative" that forces them to support it because hes a hunter. Well, maybe we can bring him around too with the very facts that killing in the oceans always leads to population crashes. The ocean ecosystem is an Inverted pyramid where we are "skimming off" the top predators exclusively (theres really no big worldwide market for plankton biomass so we usually leave this alone except for small niches)

Stradees note about the internecine relationship of many companies to the Japanese whaling fleet can be the source of an inchoate idea, namely I can get my own "hunter' associates in the Ducks Unlimited crowd to put up or shut up. I think we need some specific sanctions that hit in the wallet of companies that support whaling but are hoping that we, their customers, dont ever find out.
Gortons , look out. Your fisherman label showing the seafaring man in a slicker and souwester will have a new label , the fisherman should be covered in blood.

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I thought this might be a good time to repost this:

msolga wrote:

No new developments to report from the Greenpeace Australia site. But I found this article very interesting. US readers might, too - the connection between whaling & big business:

Who is Gorton's?

Gorton's fish fillets

Whaling is not just the concern of governments and cryptic political meetings. There is big business involved. While whaling is not profitable, you might be surprised to learn of some famous seafood companies' connections to whaling. We're asking you to help us make the whaling stop.

Who is Gorton's?

With total annual sales in the hundreds of millions of dollars, Gorton's of Gloucester is the market leader in frozen seafood products in the US. The company even invented the McDonald's Filet-O-Fish burger. Its frozen battered shrimp, fish sticks and other ready-to-eat foods are sold at grocery stores across the US.

In 2001 Gorton's was sold to its current owner, Nissui USA, for US$175 million. Nissui USA is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Nissui, Japan's second-largest marine products firm, with operations in the United States, Argentina, Chile, the Netherlands, China, Indonesia, Singapore and Vietnam. But Nissui is closely linked with the annual "scientific" whale hunt in Japan.

So, despite Gorton's clean-cut family business image, it is actually a Japanese multinational company whose parent company is involved in whaling. ... <cont>

http://oceans.greenpeace.org/en/our-oceans/whaling/gortons

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... & for Oz & NZ folk:

Feature:
Save whales in your supermarket

After a month of hampering the whale hunt, Greenpeace is leaving the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary to take the battle from the high seas to supermarket shelves.

Sealord, a company that supplies canned and fresh fish products to Australian supermarkets, fast food outlets and restaurants, is directly linked to Japan's commercial whaling through its parent company Nissui.

Nissui is a major shareholder of the company which owns Japan's whaling fleet. They also market and sell the whale meat throughout Japan.

Greenpeace Southern Ocean expedition leader Shane Rattenbury said that logistically we couldn't remain in the Southern Ocean any longer, but it wasn't the last time the whalers would hear from us.

"For a month we have dogged, delayed and disrupted the whaling fleet in the sanctuary, and have no doubt that the whalers have fallen far behind in their bid to slaughter 935 minke whales and 10 endangered fin whales," he said.

"We hope that this struggle will inspire people to help us defend whales, so that it goes down in history as the last time the peaceful silence in the sanctuary is broken by the sound of a grenade-tipped harpoon."

Everyone can help us achive this goal by being aware of who funds the whalers and by sending a message to Sealord's headquarters in New Zealand to ask the company to persuade Nissui to end the whale hunt.

The Greenpeace ship Esperanza will continue the year long 'Defending our Oceans' voyage.

For more information about Sealords see our New Zealand website. <link to the NZ website is in the Greenpeace link right at the bottom of this post>

ASK: Sealord's CEO Doug McKay to persuade Nissui to end the whale hunt

http://www.greenpeace.org.au/features/features_details.html?site_id=45&news_id=1906

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Outrage over Japan's plan to slaughter humpback whales

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