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When did Christianity invent hell and god’s imaginary condemnation of man?

 
 
Reply Tue 21 May, 2019 09:16 am
When did Christianity invent hell and god’s imaginary condemnation of man?

I have read where god cursed the ground, Gen 3;17, cursed is the ground for thy sake. Nowhere do I see where god condemned or cursed mankind directly.

When and why did Christianity invent the notions and lies surrounding hell and man’s condemnation?

Was it to loosen our purse strings or just to use fear as a tool of social manipulation and control?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x296qzz

Why do the gullible still believe this obvious lie?

Regards
DL
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Type: Question • Score: 5 • Views: 637 • Replies: 49
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Ponderer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 May, 2019 02:34 pm
@Greatest I am,
If you're not worried about it don't worry about it.
Exodus 3:14
"I Am that I Am."
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 May, 2019 06:53 am
@Greatest I am,
Greatest I am wrote:
When did Christianity invent hell and god’s imaginary condemnation of man?

I think it was in "the fall", right? The fall from Grace... when we ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and were cast out of paradise. That's the root sin that Christianity places on humanity isn't it?

Humanity chose the path of knowledge, a path that awakened it from its animal state of ignorance and bliss. A path that allowed us to judge "right" and "wrong", subjective as those are.

But the two states cannot exist together; blissful ignorance and knowledge, so we cast ourselves out of paradise intrinsically by the path we chose. Although to be honest, we really had no choice, because we cannot be truly human without being the way we are. We are a unique animal in our capacities, and evolved this way without intention.

And so, Christianity exploited an innate condition of humanity as something we needed to pay a price for. And that price could only be paid by following the dictates of the following. A control mechanism rooted in the philosophical underpinnings of what it is to be human.

Or maybe it was just an apple.
Jewels Vern
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 May, 2019 03:56 am
Most of what you think are core doctrines of Christianity are in fact core doctrines of "Babylon Mystery Religion". BMR took over the Christian church when the emperor of Rome made Christianity the state religion. You can get several books of that title by different authors detailing the history.
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 May, 2019 05:42 am
@Greatest I am,
I occasionally find myself wondering why you bother posting the posts you do.

I think the bible has a lot of inconsistencies...but I don't go out of my way to point them out (unless a poster is being hypocritical in their statements, while claiming the bible is the source of his/her inspiration). You don't just go out of your way...you appear to be on a dedicated mission to do so.

And you don't really appear interested in the responses.

What's your angle?
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 May, 2019 10:18 pm
It's alluded to in the New Testament, so the origin would have to precede at least some of those writings.
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 May, 2019 10:51 pm
@Brandon9000,
Here is an excellent book, my favorite, on this subject and all subjects on the evolution of religion:

The Myth of the Goddess : Evolution of an Image by Baring and Cashford.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 May, 2019 02:20 am
@coluber2001,
coluber2001 wrote:

Here is an excellent book, my favorite, on this subject and all subjects on the evolution of religion:

The Myth of the Goddess : Evolution of an Image by Baring and Cashford.

Thank you.
0 Replies
 
Jewels Vern
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 May, 2019 01:56 pm
@Brandon9000,
So you want to study the bible. The best way to do that is to read what the bible says instead of letting strangers tell you what it says. You can go to any online bible site and look up words to see what the bible says about this or that topic. If there is anything you don't understand, write your question and put the paper in a safe place to wait for God to send understanding.

Everything you think you know about hell came from one book by an Italian guy named Dante Allighieri, based on Roman Catholic traditions. Every word of it is bullpuckey.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jun, 2019 01:32 pm
@Ponderer,
Ponderer wrote:

If you're not worried about it don't worry about it.
Exodus 3:14
"I Am that I Am."


How self centered are you?
It seems a lot if you attribute the same attitude to me.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jun, 2019 01:39 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
When did Christianity invent hell and god’s imaginary condemnation of man?

I think it was in "the fall", right? The fall from Grace... when we ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and were cast out of paradise. That's the root sin that Christianity places on humanity isn't it?

Humanity chose the path of knowledge, a path that awakened it from its animal state of ignorance and bliss. A path that allowed us to judge "right" and "wrong", subjective as those are.

But the two states cannot exist together; blissful ignorance and knowledge, so we cast ourselves out of paradise intrinsically by the path we chose. Although to be honest, we really had no choice, because we cannot be truly human without being the way we are. We are a unique animal in our capacities, and evolved this way without intention.

And so, Christianity exploited an innate condition of humanity as something we needed to pay a price for. And that price could only be paid by following the dictates of the following. A control mechanism rooted in the philosophical underpinnings of what it is to be human.

Or maybe it was just an apple.



I see that I have nothing to teach you. Nice.

That being the case and stickily for your information, let me show you this link that Christians run from discussing and also point out a Christian oddity about Adam's sin. They do call it a fall, yet in their Exultet Easter hymn, the call Adam's sin a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

IOW, Christians will not argue against the Jewish view which is the reverse of theirs, yet they basically agree with it.

Christians are such poor apologists as compared to intelligent thinkers.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jun, 2019 01:41 pm
@Jewels Vern,
Jewels Vern wrote:

Most of what you think are core doctrines of Christianity are in fact core doctrines of "Babylon Mystery Religion". BMR took over the Christian church when the emperor of Rome made Christianity the state religion. You can get several books of that title by different authors detailing the history.


Thanks for showing the difference. Oh wait ----

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jun, 2019 01:44 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

I occasionally find myself wondering why you bother posting the posts you do.

I think the bible has a lot of inconsistencies...but I don't go out of my way to point them out (unless a poster is being hypocritical in their statements, while claiming the bible is the source of his/her inspiration). You don't just go out of your way...you appear to be on a dedicated mission to do so.

And you don't really appear interested in the responses.

What's your angle?


I am quite interested in responses as I get the occasional decent one.

My angle is simple. Part of my Gnostic Christian mandate is to fight evil.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jun, 2019 01:47 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

It's alluded to in the New Testament, so the origin would have to precede at least some of those writings.


The N.T. was not written till many years after Jesus died.

Are you saying we were not collectively condemned till Jesus showed up and that hell was invented long after Jesus died?

Regards
DL

0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jun, 2019 02:06 pm
@Greatest I am,
So sad that the original meaning of these religious parables has been lost over time, corrupted and manipulated by people with agendas and delusions.

The original stories, stripped of all the guilt and insecurity applied to them, seems to show that observers in ancient times, at least some of them, recognized the actual prehistory of humanity and how our consciousness arose from animals. They inferred what it must have been like for humanity to make that transition, and left simple stories about it. A poignant reminder of a time when people with same brains that modern astrophysicists have, stood in the tall grass gazing out over the savanna and recognized from whence they had come.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jun, 2019 02:16 pm
@coluber2001,
coluber2001 wrote:

Here is an excellent book, my favorite, on this subject and all subjects on the evolution of religion:

The Myth of the Goddess : Evolution of an Image by Baring and Cashford.


I will check it out.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Jun, 2019 04:41 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
at least some of them, recognized the actual prehistory of humanity and how our consciousness arose from animals. They inferred what it must have been like for humanity to make that transition, and left simple stories about it. A poignant reminder of a time when people with same brains that modern astrophysicists have, stood in the tall grass gazing out over the savanna and recognized from whence they had come.

It's not that difficult to recognize that humans have the ability to act more like animals, by reacting mindlessly to instincts and emotions, or seek and follow higher ethics.

When reflecting on how high such higher ethics could go, you come to the idea of an ultimate conscience/consciousness.

From there you can contemplate what a perfect existence would be like and how sin prevents such a paradise from occurring in practice.

Sin curses the creation, indeed, and the question is what to do with our lives here despite that curse.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2019 07:48 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
at least some of them, recognized the actual prehistory of humanity and how our consciousness arose from animals. They inferred what it must have been like for humanity to make that transition, and left simple stories about it. A poignant reminder of a time when people with same brains that modern astrophysicists have, stood in the tall grass gazing out over the savanna and recognized from whence they had come.

It's not that difficult to recognize that humans have the ability to act more like animals, by reacting mindlessly to instincts and emotions, or seek and follow higher ethics.

When reflecting on how high such higher ethics could go, you come to the idea of an ultimate conscience/consciousness.

From there you can contemplate what a perfect existence would be like and how sin prevents such a paradise from occurring in practice.

Sin curses the creation, indeed, and the question is what to do with our lives here despite that curse.


If sin is such a curse, why did god insure that Eve was tempted and Adam sinned by placing Satan or the talking serpent in Eden?

If sin is such a curse, why do Christians sing in their exulted hymn that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to God's plan?

Do you not see the necessity of sin to God's plan?

Regards
DL

livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2019 08:04 am
@Greatest I am,
Greatest I am wrote:

If sin is such a curse, why did god insure that Eve was tempted and Adam sinned by placing Satan or the talking serpent in Eden?

If sin is such a curse, why do Christians sing in their exulted hymn that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to God's plan?

Do you not see the necessity of sin to God's plan?

Regards
DL

If you love sin, the pleasures it brings, the harm it causes, etc.; I would consider you a Satanist.

The point of Christianity is to become aware of sin as causing harm and then transcend it in various ways, all of which are difficult/impossible because of the nature of the creation.

If you want to argue that God added sin as an ingredient to the creation to keep it churning, that's your perspective; but if the ramifications of that is embracing and/or celebrating sin, I would just consider that Satanic.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2019 11:29 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

If sin is such a curse, why did god insure that Eve was tempted and Adam sinned by placing Satan or the talking serpent in Eden?

If sin is such a curse, why do Christians sing in their exulted hymn that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to God's plan?

Do you not see the necessity of sin to God's plan?

Regards
DL

If you love sin, the pleasures it brings, the harm it causes, etc.; I would consider you a Satanist.

The point of Christianity is to become aware of sin as causing harm and then transcend it in various ways, all of which are difficult/impossible because of the nature of the creation.

If you want to argue that God added sin as an ingredient to the creation to keep it churning, that's your perspective; but if the ramifications of that is embracing and/or celebrating sin, I would just consider that Satanic.


Then your religion is satanic as it says that Adaqm's sin is a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

What is necessary to god's plan must be embraced and that hymn shows that you, if you did not sin, would derail god's plans.

Is that your goal? If not, then embrace sin the way your religion does.

Regards
DL
 

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