Florida Castle Doctrine Bill

Well, maybe I'm confused by the term "forcible felony". For instance, is breaking and entering a forcible felony? If so, and you see someone breaking in to your neighbors house, even if your neighbors are not home and you are not in danger, can you shoot them?

It seems to me that they are allowing the use of deadly force in a case that is outside of self-defense. But I'm no lawyer.

No. Forcible felonies are things like kidnapping, armed robbery, etc... They are actions againt a person - not against property. If there is no 2nd person involved then it's just a felony - not a forcible felony.

*Edited to add:

Here is the legal definition from the State of FL:

"776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; car-jacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual."

Treason and arson? Unlawful throwing? I give up.

lol I have no idea why they'd include treason in there. I'm not sure there is such as thing as treason at the state level.

The "unlawful throwing" is "unlawful throwing of a discharging or destructive device" - i.e. moltov cocktail, grenade, pipe bomb, etc.. You have to parse the definition as complete concepts seperated by semi-colons.

Actually, in Florida you can defend your property. If you catch Don and Juan stealing your boat motor, and you shoot one of them, the other can be charged not only with attempted grand larceny, but murder. You'll likely walk scott free.

Ah, that makes more sense, then. My imagination was a running...

If that's true, then that's what I have a problem with. Not that those stealing don't deserve punishment -- they do, and possibly physical punishment -- but if it's ok for a samaritan to kill for someone for committing a crime that isn't punishable by death and doesn't prevent harm to others and isn't done in self-defense, personally I think that's going too far.

I thought unlawful throwing had something to do with making clay pots.

Any Floridians here who can confirm this? My parents used to live there, and that's my understanding from them (my dad is ex-military, packs heat, tends to know these things).

Castle Doctrine - where is the line?
I am a resident of Florida.

The other day I inadvertently stepped in front of a huge fellow who was waiting in a cash register line. This guy literally went ballistic on me, ranting and raving at the top of his lungs about my faux pas and my lineage.

As I quickly left the store (I have not yet uttered a word to this guy), he continued his tirade and began to follow me out into the parking lot. He stopped midway between my car and the building and just bellowed.

For the sake of argument, however, let's change things a bit and assume that he didn't stop where he did and instead continued towards me.

Although I am walking away from this beast, let's assume he caught up with me before I reached my car and grabbed me about the collar with his paw. Now he is just holding me there, screaming at me, but his fist is cocked and ready to fly. I can't go anywhere.

I'm not exactly Ivan the Terrible, so the odds of me defending myself with my bare hands against this Goliath are pretty low. One good hit from the ham that was attached to his arm could do some damage, I would think.

If I had a weapon, whether it be a club, a blade or a gun, under Florida's new castle doctrine, would I be justified in using it?

What if he was more my size?

I think so, MJR. A good beating can leave you handicapped for life, you know, and I see no reason to tolerate it just because the guy is bigger, younger, or simply more athletic. Since concealed carry is legal in Florida, possibly he stopped because he considered you might be carrying? It's amazing how quickly these "uncontrollable tempers" can be brought under control when the dude finds out he is the one in danger, and not someone else.

Re: Castle Doctrine - where is the line?


There isn't really going to be a clear line until there are a few cases and court decisions to lay out exactly where the line will be drawn.

You might very well be justified and not have any problems but you could just as easily end up spending a year or two in a cell awaiting trial for it to be proven too.

In very general terms though, you can usually only use enough force as is required to extricate yourself from the situtaion - i.e. use equeal force in return. A club or bat might not be a real issue in this sort of thing but a firearm being used against someone that has dispalyed no weapon is going to have the DA looking at you awfully hard.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'

But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.

He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

(Matt 5)

While I tend to agree with you guest, I'm wondering how you managed to get that handle?

I guess it wasn't reserved? (Guests are why we typically refer to as lurkers, who can read but cannot post until they join).

e_BROWNP-you're right this is a Christian nation-we fought hard to get it - now we are fighting to keep it-This castle law should be in every state-maybe then the criminals will go to France-give them something to fight for

Hunce,

You are using the term "Christian" in a very strange way. The term Christian should mean "people who follow the example and teachings of Christ".

The teachings of Christ are clear. You do not "fight hard" to get a Christian nation.

Jesus did the exact opposite. He was urged by the people upon his entrance to Jerusalem to establish a government (with Him as leader), and he declined. He went to his death without resisting, saying "My Kingdom" is not of the world.

And people following the life and teachings of Christ don't shoot anyone, even Criminals. Jesus specifically said "don't resist the evil man" and "love your enemies".

I don't know what kind of nation you are fighting for, but it is not a Christian one.

If you really want a Christian nation, you will urge compassion, practice forgiveness, free people from prisons, feed the poor and heal the sick, preach peace and love those who harm you.

Please explain how the Castle Doctrine would help you do these things.

Or are you following a different Christ...

christians
Well it looks like many died for nothing if all it would have took is do nothing - wonder what language us Christians would be forced to be speaking if we just turned the other cheek especially now-think the alqueda would repent and give up there killings because we don't agree with them?

Just my thoughts
Hello all.

After reading through this forum, it seems that Democracy and The Constitution are working. Just the fact that we are able to discuss matters like this is quite amazing."ya think?"

I would like to ask a few questions to all apposed the the new Florida "Castle Doctrine". Have any of you lost a loved one or friend from a violent crime? Do you think that loved one or friend would still be here if they were armed? Criminals are just that "Criminals" They do not abide by our laws and are usually aquitted because of our laws. It's a vicious cycle with very little room for law abiding citizens to protect themselves without prosecution. The Doctrine simply allows Florida residents the right to protect there loved ones and friends from being killed by a criminal intending to do just that.

Do you watch the news? Deadly force doesn't discriminate. I hope to god I never have to use a weapon to kill someone, but if it is them or me, I choose ME!! A CW permit is just that--- A right to conceal a weapon "NOT USE IT" If you don't feel you have the restraint to use every other reasonable method to defend yourself, then you should not carry a weapon, its that simple.

What I don't agree with is that almost anyone who applies can get the permit. While I took my class, there were at least 5 immigrants "NOT US citizens" taking the class as well. From this point, it is all up to the FBI to weed out who should or shouldn't receive the permit.

We just have to accept the fact that we live in an imperfect world and need to have the intelligance to choose the "Right Thing to do" when put in a precarious situation. If it were up to me I would get rid of ALL weapons in the world, but it just isn't up to me..............

Just to answer the question I asked earlier myself. I have not lost a loved one or friend due to a violent crime, but I don't intend to either!!!


Just speaking my peace

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