The bright side of slavery

Alright well before i ruin my rep here and have everyone hate me...lol maybe i should use some small talk to save me. Did everyone else have beautiful weather today. Im done arguing. lol in this case arguing the other side is too hard. Ill leave it to someone else to try.

<<Runs off to start the "Bright side of Syphilus' thread>>

Nobody hates you. We're just pointing out holes in your evidence and reasoning -- and frankly, you're not doing a very convincing job at defending your position. Since none of us (I think) knows you in real life, and new user accounts are easy to create here, you have no reason to worry about your reputation here.

I have a good understanding of natural selection. It appears you do not. If it occurs then the individuals in one population are different from those in another. If the individuals are exactly the same in both populations then how did one become bigger and stronger?

Your argument of IF it was beneficial leads to its own failings. If it was beneficial then wouldn't the best population always be those enslaved? Your argument might be something to look at from a theoretical exercise but it wasn't presented as such. It was presented as an attempt to back up a silly argument.

I was going to say something similar ebrown, that while I think the premise is um flawed, it got a lot more interesting responses than a thread stating "Slavery was just plain bad" likely would've.

And Discreet, we don't hate you, we just think your premise is um flawed. If it's "too hard" to argue the other side, could be that the other side is um flawed.

Just saw what Thomas said, very much agreed.

Can anyone recommend any good books or articles on the benefits of slavery on a transpiring economy? Or something of the sort ill check em out and come back to this thread with a few phds and a scholar, writing books on the topic just you wait.

Ha! If you were hated, you'd get a much harsher reaction. (That or setanta's not online...)

Man, Discreet, I had a feeling it would be like this.

Obviously this was a thought experiement. I believe that Discreet's position was not that of racism, but of a search for true understanding. Isn't it possible to think that slavery is abhorrent, while simultaneously holding the position that since it was a part of our history it is necessarily a reason why our country is currently the way it is today?

If you believe that our actions have had any effect on the world, then in some sense, slavery did make the US the country it is today. That is because without slavery the US would be different. I don't know whether it would be better or worse, but it would be different.

Who knows whether slavery eventually resulted in greater freedom for all? It is all conjecture, but still an interesting topic. Sometimes it is fun to think about things that could never have been.

Since no one is condoning slavery, I don't see what the problem is in saying that it had a profound effect on our country.

Dunno about that topic in particular, but a book I've been browsing in the hopper for a while is "Africe: a Biography of a Continent," by John Reader (a photojournalist who's spent much of his life in Africa). Very far ranging, touches a lot of topics, from geology to evolution to economics to history to... you get the idea. And it does brush up against the effects of slave exportation on an economy.

If you go after PhD stuff, you're going to be butting your head against a bunch of economic concepts which I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't (and I wouldn't) grasp.

Im glad i didnt start the thread "A ho-hum over the mistreatment of Indians and why they are better off now"







hehehe just kidding guys

I don't either. I don't think anyone else is saying that's a problem, though -- it's the one thing that we haven't pounced upon as spurious (though I don't think Discreet ever said it in as supportable of a way.)

(pd, heehehehehehe...!)

I would start with a Google search for "economics of slavery". There seem to be plenty of good resources scattered around there.

(Discreet desperately runs to tread "when to keep your mouth shut") I ll have to take some notes

I am saddened to hear that we caused you despair by asking you to back up your position with evidence and reasoning. I will try to refrain from asking so much of you in the future.

...that's funny stuff, Thomas. I don't care what everybody else says -- you're all right.

Ha no im kidding i guess being flogged and beaten with questions benefited me for the greater good because now i have learned from my mistakes. (just like slavery) lol next time ill get some facts so you guys can dabble your minds in thought. Its fun to think. And more fun to convince people into a certain axiom to what you are saying being true. God bless america. In china and japan you can;t even be educated because the history books are changed for politcal purposes

Thanks, patiodog! (Not that I have reason to complain about what everybody else says)

Admitedly, I haven't read every single comment on this thread. It's just too damned long and everybody seems to have something worthwhile to say. However, judging from the first three or four pages that I did read, I think some of you are being a little too hard on Discreet. It's true that he seems a little confused about means and results. It's also true that the use of the phrase "bright side" in the title is, at best, unfortunate. And, finally, despite his impassioned "I am not a racist" rant, so many things he has said in subsequent posts hints at a deep-seated fear and resentment of African-Americans.

That said, there is also much to consider in his original question. To deny it is to deny the immense contrubutions that African-Americans have made to the culture of this country. Take a look at our capital city, Washington, DC. How many Americans are aware that the layout of that city is as much (if not more) a result of the work of Benjamin Banneker, a former slave, as of Pierre l'Enfant, the French architect? Listen to American music today. Our popular music today is directly descended from the blues and spirituals of the slaves, through jazz, through rhythm-and-blues, etc. Slavery, in the long run, may have been the bane of the American South. But, in the short run, it certainly helped build the South's economy in the first half of the 19th Century. Cotton became king in a way it never could have done in an economy where field hands had to be paid a decent wage. Without the pernicious and odious fact of slavery, none of these things would have come about. There was literally no immigration from Africa into the North American continent, nor -- under the existing circumstances -- was there ever likely to be.

The problem with Discreet's argument is that he seems willing to use these results of the African-American contribution as a justification for the institution of chattel slavery, a position which is indefensible. Instead of censuring Discreet, I think we should be guiding him into an understanding that the "end" never justifies 'the means." Would Dr. Mengele's loathsome experiments on death-camp inmates be justifyable and forgiveable if they had led to a cure for cancers? I don't think so.

well said merry andrew. I guess we can turn this thread into exploring the roots or benefits of slavery in todays modern society.

(BTW doesnt chattel mean slave, i thoughts that what it meant i don't get what you mean by chattel slavery)

The truly bright side of slavery is that the god of the Bible thinks it is just fine and dandy.

Come to think of it...that ain't a bright side either.