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Catholic Church Now Accepts Gays

 
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 08:30 pm
thunder_runner32 wrote:
No, those (few) sickos have used their power and ranking to molest children. The church cannot accept or reject something it doesn't know about.

You are confusing homosexuals with pedophiles. Cardinal Law most certainly knew about his pedophiles and did nothing.
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 05:56 am
mesquite wrote:
Cardinal Law most certainly knew about his pedophiles and did nothing


Well, that is just plain wrong.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:35 am
thunder_runner32 wrote:
mesquite wrote:
Cardinal Law most certainly knew about his pedophiles and did nothing


Well, that is just plain wrong.


You are right. He did do something. He covered up.

Quote:
The crisis began after Law admitted that he reassigned former priest John Geoghan from parish to parish even though Geoghan had been accused of child abuse. Other documents have suggested a pattern of covering up abuse allegations by moving accused priests and not reporting the allegations to authorities.

Source
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 05:42 am
I honestly see why people are turned off by religion with crap like this.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 12:08 pm
At least one Medievalist, who formerly held an endowed chair, I believe, at Yale, found evidence that during the Middle Ages, the church blessed "friendship" unions between men.

My youngest brother considered becoming a monk and went on several retreats to a monastery until he accidentally opened the wrong door at the right time and found two of the brothers enjoying each other.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 01:44 pm
I gotta say I think what is done in regard to the moral lapses and their enablin' conditions is of more relevance than that such have existed. We all recognize the problems. What matters now is where The Church, under Benedict XVI, decides to go in addressin' and resolvin' the problems, and how open and effective it will be in its prosecution of the issue. I expect the focus will be quite public, very intense, and reasonably effective.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 06:08 pm
Off the subject, but, what sort of sentence is this:
I gotta say I think what is done in regard to the moral lapses and their enablin' conditions is of more relevance than that such have existed.
--------------------
Why is homosexuality immoral? That escapes me.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 06:24 pm
Have trouble understandin' that, do ya? Perhaps that's not too surprisin'. After all, it wasn't a simple declarative sentence.
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 06:00 am
Quote:
Why is homosexuality immoral? That escapes me...


God made us a certain way, he knows what is best for us. When sin entered the world, we decided that we were the masters of ourselves, and we could decide that. Men were obviously made for women, and vice versa, and to say that people in general are just made for each other (sexually) is to say that you know more than God.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 06:48 am
Have trouble understandin' that, do ya? Perhaps that's not too surprisin'. After all, it wasn't a simple declarative sentence.

Timber -- No, I have no trouble understanding things. I do have two master's degree, both with honors, one in English. I've been a journalist and an editor and an English teacher. You love to talk about the low standard of education today but your own writing is terrible. Your English placement at this high school would be C2, possibly C1.

You are right that youts was not a simple sentence: it's a run on sentence. Furthermore, it, like most of your writing, is bombastic.
------------------------------
When sin entered the world, we decided that we were the masters of ourselves, and we could decide that. Men were obviously made for women, and vice versa, and to say that people in general are just made for each other (sexually) is to say that you know more than God.

thunder -- I re-posted your statement because you have just said that you know more than god!
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:21 am
Quote:
thunder -- I re-posted your statement because you have just said that you know more than god!


How?
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:52 am
Men were obviously made for women, and vice versa, and to say that people in general are just made for each other (sexually) is to say that you know more than God.


Look.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 11:19 am
plainoldme wrote:
Timber -- No, I have no trouble understanding things. I do have two master's degree, both with honors, one in English. I've been a journalist and an editor and an English teacher. You love to talk about the low standard of education today but your own writing is terrible. Your English placement at this high school would be C2, possibly C1.

You are right that youts was not a simple sentence: it's a run on sentence. Furthermore, it, like most of your writing, is bombastic.
Bombastic? Perhaps. I would lean more toward characterizin' it as assertive, even forceful, but if you prefer, "bombastic" will do. Either way, a subjective judgement - not really quantifiable. Colloquially stylized, to the point of affectation? Certainly. Occasionally pedagogic? Well ..... yeah, I s'pose I hafta cop to that. Pedantantic, elitist, derisive, dismissive, vituperative, and laced with unwarranted assumption, factual error, inuendo, ad hominem and assorted other logical fault? Rarely. But then, just between the two of us, that's just me - or so it seems to me.

Humor me though, if you will - how is the sentence to which you take exception "run on"? It appears to me its structure establishes and defines a single idea, and does so in stylistically acceptable manner, apart from the eccentric spellin'. Then, perhaps I misread The Associated Press Stylebook, The Chicago Manual of Style, and Strunk and White's The Elements of Style.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 11:44 am
Timber -- I once told you on another thread, that I would never have the gall to criticize someone for something I couldn't do. You can not write well. As a journalist, as an editor, as an English teacher, I am in a better place to judge -- grade, if you will -- your performance. You have never posted anything worthy of a grade higher than a C.

The irony is that you've taken upon yourself a crusade to improve American education, a task for which you have no qualifications, including judgment.

Assertive is a flattering term, in certain circumstances. But it is not a term that necessarily applies to you, as it tends to be applied to people defending themselves.

I have, in the past, told you that your writing is sophomoric. You meander around the point, hinting at what you have to say, but seldom say it. When pinned down, it turns out there is no substance. Often, your work has at its heart the factual error you deny. Kids often write this way, particularly when they are desperate for attention.

Subjective? Sorry. My profession is judging the writing of others. Try to say what you mean in as few words as possible.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 12:08 pm
Frankly, POM, your opinion of my writin' amuses me about as much as does your political position, but that's neither here nor there. Thanks again for humorin' me. Now if I may impose once more, care to drag up and substantiate an example or two of my factual error? Factual error, mind you, not opinion with which you and/or some pundit in your camp might disagree.

I note as well you avoided addressin' the specifically indicated matter of your assessment of that sentence of mine you earlier singled out.
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Raelian1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 12:12 am
Catholic Church now accepting gays??
That's not what I read:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4473001.stm

The Catholic Church, especially the Vatican officials, are still homophobic and sexist. The best way for gay Catholics to let the Catholic Church know that they won't tolerate their bigotry is to apostasize (debaptise) from their organization. You can get these forms at apostasie.org. They are sexist because there are no woman priests and women have hardly any powerful positions within the Church. Any intelligent woman who is Catholic should also apostasize (intelligent men should also as well). One final note. In Pope John II book, there is a comment about abortion being compared to victims of the Nazi Holocaust. That's really offensive to women (and Jewish people).
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 09:25 am
This may come as a disappointment - perhaps even a shock - to you Raelian1 (Oh - and welcome to A2K, BTW), but the Roman Catholic Church never has been nor will it ever be about what folks want it to be.

In [url=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1292830#1292830]another discussion[/url], timber wrote:
... The Roman Catholic Church never has been anything other than "All-or-Nothing". While apostacy no longer is rewarded by burnin' at the stake, The Church still does not offer cafeteria-style religion. You take what's there, all of it, or you're not within it. There's nothin' new about that - the concept is as old as The Church itself.

For one to profess Catholicism while consciously failin' to follow ALL Church doctrine is both intellectually and ethically dishonest. Now, within the view of The Church, there is a difference between doctrine and dogma, which I've tried to explain a couple times. Once more, as simply put as I can manage, dogma - in the view of The Church - is the express, direct, divinely revealed, immutable, word of God. Dogma may be neither created nor disputed by man; dogma must be accepted without question. No article of dogma ever has changed. Doctrine, however, proceeds from dogma. It is firmly bindin' on The Faithful while in force. Doctrine represents the best understandin' of The Church, and as such may be subject to revision or rescion. An illustration of this may be found in the case of The Church vs Gallileo.

Dogma goes to matters of the foundation of faith and morality. For example, that there is One God in the 3 Personages of The Trinity is dogma, that celibacy be bindin' on those who undertake Holy Orders is doctrine. That the role of sex is procreation within Matrimony is dogma, that women be excluded from the priesthood is doctrine.

Doctrine may not be imposed, adjusted, or rescinded to suit the fashion of the time or the whim of a particular Pontiff. The examination and development of doctrine is a complex, often multi-generational matter, involvin' much debate within The Congregations of The Curia, thorough vettin' by The Church's Doctors of Theology, the convocation of Councils, and the assent of The College of Cardinals. Once a Pope is fully satisfied, through The Blessin' of The Holy Spirit, in mind and conscience the matter of a doctrinal establishment, revision, or rescision is without error - wholly consistent with the teachin's of The Church as regard dogma, that Pope not only may but must pronounce the doctrine as bindin' on The Faithful. Of course, that's not to say the process hasn't been shortcutted or sidestepped in the past, but that's the process as it should be - and most often has been.

Now, back to dogma. That The Holy Roman Catholic Church is the sole and perfect repository and font of divinely revealed truth, exclusively from which all true teachin' flows, and which must be obeyed in every particular by The Faithful is dogma. Bein' Catholic has a lot in common with bein' pregnant, or bein' dead; there just ain't no partial participation allowed, no "middle ground". You IS or you AIN'T - Period, finis, End of Discussion.

Now, please bear in mind the foregoin' is Church position - not timber's. Timber thinks a bit differently when it comes to matters theological.


Now, given that by Church Dogma, the role of sex strictly and unchangeably is procreation within Matrimony (which sacrament itself is by dogma an indissoluable bond between a man and a woman), there is absolutely no expectation of any change in The Church's stance as regards homosexual practice. Zero. None. Zip. Like, as in "Not Ever". The Church does acknowledge that homosexuality exists, of course, and that it is deeply ingrained within some people. The Church's position is not that homosexual preferance is to be condemned, but rather that homosexual parctice is intolerable. One may be homosexually inclined and remain a Catholic only and specifically if one refrains from homosexual practice, remaininin' chaste and celibate outside of Matrimony. Don't look for any change in Church position as would regard contraception or abortion, either; those are high up and etched-in-stone on the "Go Nowhere" list as well. A greater role for women in Catholic clergy is by some considered theoretically possible, but then so is faster-tban-light travel. Personally, I'd bet on warp drive commin' around before The Church goes with women in the priesthood.

And just to reitterate, whether or not I agree with The Church on these issues, I pretty well understands, and hold no unrealistic expectations regardin', The Church's positition on 'em.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 09:41 am
Except that I prefer not to drop the "g" at the end of words as often as Timber does...

...he has nailed this one perfectly.

Oops...one other minor disagreement. I'd say the role of women in the church...including the priesthood...comes before warp drive...and possibly...POSSIBLY...within the lifetime of people currently alive.

I hope not. I hope the Church remains steadfast. in that regard.

But of course, I am hoping for the total disintegration of the Church as a precursor to the total disintegration of religion.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 10:01 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
Except that I prefer not to drop the "g" at the end of words as often as Timber does...

That's an affectation of style I've become fond of for the entertainment value it provides some of my fans Mr. Green - I'm actually gettin' sorta tired of it, but there are those who count on it Twisted Evil

Quote:
...he has nailed this one perfectly.

Thanks - I try. The Jebbies taught me how to use that particular hammer, though, so credit where its due Laughing

Quote:
Oops...one other minor disagreement. I'd say the role of women in the church...including the priesthood...comes before warp drive...and possibly...POSSIBLY...within the lifetime of people currently alive.

You may be right - its within the realm of possibility. I just can't see much of a near-to-mid-term chance.

Quote:
I hope not. I hope the Church remains steadfast. in that regard.

I'm with ya there.

Quote:
But of course, I am hoping for the total disintegration of the Church as a precursor to the total disintegration of religion.

Again I share mosta that sentiment - but I hold little expectation of such ever occurrin'; superstitition is so much fun.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 May, 2005 01:14 am
Re: Catholic Church now accepting gays??
Raelian1 wrote:
That's not what I read:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4473001.stm

The Catholic Church, especially the Vatican officials, are still homophobic and sexist. The best way for gay Catholics to let the Catholic Church know that they won't tolerate their bigotry is to apostasize (debaptise) from their organization. You can get these forms at apostasie.org. They are sexist because there are no woman priests and women have hardly any powerful positions within the Church. Any intelligent woman who is Catholic should also apostasize (intelligent men should also as well).

Benedict XVI has said that he couldn't care less about numbers. Look was happened with the Protestant Reformation. Millions were leaving so the Council of Trent was convened, some abuses were corrected but all doctrines were reaffirmed and heresy condemned. There was no change in doctrine even as the Church was being reduced to a fraction of what it was.

Raelian1 wrote:
One final note. In Pope John II book, there is a comment about abortion being compared to victims of the Nazi Holocaust. That's really offensive to women (and Jewish people).

And implying that the life of an unborn baby is worthless is offensive to pro-life Catholics.
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