17
   

Drones: how much longer will it take...

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2018 10:33 am
biggest thing is that drones can hover and fixed wing rc's cannot.
weve used fixed wings for lidar mapping but at very high altitudes and gps positions are changing rapidly . drones are much more controllable.
Weve had fixed wing unmanned aircraft where missions needed long distance , quads and octos are much more close- in oriented but with a disadvantage of no extended duration flight.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2018 10:54 am
@farmerman,
The US military is developing tiltrotor drones that are basically scale sized versions of the V-22 Osprey. There are recreational tiltrotor drones already available for purchase to the public.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2018 11:08 am
@InfraBlue,
theyll be on the market in a year or two after the us milcon is terminated
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2018 12:50 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

The US military is developing tiltrotor drones that are basically scale sized versions of the V-22 Osprey. There are recreational tiltrotor drones already available for purchase to the public.

If stationary ground-based bombs are called 'land-mines,' will drone-based bombs be called 'fly-mines?' Or maybe 'hover-mines' is better?
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 09:32 am
The plot sickens:

Police admit some of the drones spotted over Gatwick could have been theirs

Quote:
The chief constable of Sussex Police has said that some of the drones spotted over Gatwick Airport in the week before Christmas may have actually belonged to police.

There were 115 drone sightings reported during the disruption on December 19th and 20th, with 92 coming from "credible people". However, authorities have now admitted that police drones could have been responsible for some of the sightings.

Speaking to the BBC, Chief Constable Giles York said that during the investigation "we will have launched our own Sussex Police drones at the time with a view to investigate, with a view to engage, with a view to survey the area looking for the drone, so there could be some level of confusion there."

Two drones have been found in the area, but both have now been ruled out by police.

"I don't think we have found the drone responsible for this at this time," saidChief Constable York.

"I think the fact that we have found two drones so far as a result of this does show the extent of the search that has been carried out."

"I am led to believe that we are able to rule those drones out of this investigation at this time."

A man and a woman were arrested in connection to the drone sightings at Gatwick but were later released without charge.

A previous police statement suggested that it was possible that there was no drone at all, though authorities later backtracked on that, and called it a "mess-up".

joe
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 09:35 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
If stationary ground-based bombs are called 'land-mines,' will drone-based bombs be called 'fly-mines?' Or maybe 'hover-mines' is better?

No. A mine is, by definition, secured in place and is detonated by contact, proximity, or a time fuse.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 10:19 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
If stationary ground-based bombs are called 'land-mines,' will drone-based bombs be called 'fly-mines?' Or maybe 'hover-mines' is better?

No. A mine is, by definition, secured in place and is detonated by contact, proximity, or a time fuse.

So it can't be called a 'mine' while it is hovering in one spot?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 10:23 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

If stationary ground-based bombs are called 'land-mines,' will drone-based bombs be called 'fly-mines?' Or maybe 'hover-mines' is better?

They are more likely to be called Hunter-Killers because science fiction precedes science fact (Terminator). At least until the marketing people get ahold of it, then they will probably be called Peace Puppies or some other insipid feel-good tripe.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 10:37 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

livinglava wrote:

If stationary ground-based bombs are called 'land-mines,' will drone-based bombs be called 'fly-mines?' Or maybe 'hover-mines' is better?

They are more likely to be called Hunter-Killers because science fiction precedes science fact (Terminator). At least until the marketing people get ahold of it, then they will probably be called Peace Puppies or some other insipid feel-good tripe.

If they are set to explode on impact or when fired upon, they could be called 'pyro pinatas.'
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 06:15 pm
Existing law in most countries prohibits the flight of aircraft into the controlled airspace around most airports, without clearance from the airport controllers. Similarly flight by any aircraft in cloud cover or low visibility conditions requires a flight clearance from the FAA. As farmerman has suggested, only minor modifications to these laws will make them applicable to drones, though I believe we are a long way from allowing drone flights in instrument flight conditions. In the same vein I believe that liability and insurance issues will fairly quickly limit the operation of drones by people or corporation with significant assets that can be lost to claims for damage.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 06:39 pm
@georgeob1,
thats why its best not to have some unit in our company that would fly the lidar drones or use them to take pix. We pay out the noze for these services but you know how it is with subcontractors. ALL OF them are aces at marketing some sales pitch based on technical jargon and their indispensability . All Im hoping is that they dont run the damn drone into a nuke waste pond or cyanide drip just because some jr geologist talked a client into some 'NEAT NEW" technology without spending any time researching the possible downsides.
M i getting to sound like some old fart?? you betcha.




georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 08:26 pm
@farmerman,
I agree. It's an interesting problem. In a recent large scale earth moving job in Oregon our construction subcontractor used low altitude drone photography to measure the volumes of soil replaced. However these were very small drones that operated at altitudes below 200 ft. agl, and we made sure he had insurance coverage for them. That did get his attention.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2018 08:48 pm
@georgeob1,
thats how you distinguish the pros from the clowns isnt it?. I once had a PM hire some blasters in coal country. When my PM asked em for bonding limits documents and insurance certificates naming us as extra insured they replied with

"Aw hell we dont need nona that .Everybody in St Clair knows us"


georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2018 11:36 am
@farmerman,
Laughing Laughing
And the next words from your PM were "Goodbye"
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2018 01:31 pm
@georgeob1,
naah. he learned a good lesson that QA procedures govern way more than mere lab and field methods . He took those guys out for some beers and went through what theyd have to learn in order to work for us. He did something else that I used in future PM training sessions.
He spoke to these guys about how our company expends a lot of time and capitol on making sure contrctors are not only familiar with theASTM "way" but "our way" and how we become a team and how we like to keep good team members and treat em fairly and well.
These guys were still serving as blast hole drillers and explosives contrctors when I left
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2020 04:42 am
‘It’s Creepy’: Unexplained Drones Are Swarming by Night Over Colorado

Sheriffs in western Nebraska and eastern Colorado say they don’t know who’s flying the drones — or why. The F.A.A. is investigating.

Quote:
They come in the night: Drones — lots of them — flying in precise formations over the Colorado and Nebraska prairie.

Whose are they? Unknown.

Why are they there? Unclear.

“It’s creepy,” said Missy Blackman, who saw three drones hovering over her farm outside Palisade, Neb., on a recent evening, including one that lingered right above her house. “I have a lot of questions of why and what are they, and nobody seems to have any answers.”

Since before Christmas, sheriff’s departments in the region have been bombarded with reports of large drones with blinking lights and wingspans of up to 6 feet flying over rural towns and open fields. The drones have unnerved residents, prompted a federal investigation and made international news, even though they may be perfectly legal. And still, they remain unexplained.

“In terms of aircraft flying at night and not being identified, this is a first for me personally,” said Sheriff James Brueggeman of Perkins County, Neb., who has worked in law enforcement for about 28 years and who saw the drones while on patrol Tuesday night.

He said he had heard rumblings about people wanting to shoot down a drone, and had urged residents to report the sightings to law enforcement instead. “I think it’s kind of a joke, but you have to remember the part of the country we live in,” the sheriff said. “People here don’t like their privacy to be invaded.”

The flights have drawn attention just as the Federal Aviation Administration last week proposed sweeping new regulations that would require most drones to be identifiable. Ian Gregor, a spokesman for the F.A.A., said that the timing of the proposed rule was coincidental, but that the agency had opened an investigation of the sightings in Colorado and Nebraska.

“Multiple F.A.A. divisions and government agencies are investigating these reports,” Mr. Gregor said in an email. He declined to discuss the inquiry in detail, but said investigators were trying to determine who was operating the drones and the purpose of the flights.

On Facebook, 911 dispatch lines and local newspaper columns, the drones have been the talk of rural Colorado and Nebraska. And as sightings increase — people in four counties said they had seen them on Tuesday — so too does the urgency of residents’ questions.

Some have suggested they might be part of a simple mapping operation, or a land survey conducted by an oil and gas company — but why would such flights run at night?

Senator Cory Gardner, Republican of Colorado, said on social media that he would “closely monitor the situation.” A newspaper headline in Akron, Colo., asked, “What’s with the drones?” Multiple law enforcement agencies warned residents that shooting a drone out of the sky would be a crime.

I’ve been in contact with the FAA regarding the heavy drone activity in Eastern Colorado and I’m encouraged that they’ve opened a full investigation to learn the source and purpose of the drones. I will continue to closely monitor the situation.
— Cory Gardner (@SenCoryGardner) December 31, 2019


“They’re high enough where you couldn’t shoot one anyway, but they’re low enough that they’re a nuisance,” said Dawn George, who lives near Wray, Colo., and whose Border collie has barked at the drones when they fly over her property.

Ms. George said she had heard wild speculation about who might be responsible for the flights — the government? a cartel? a gas company? — and feared they would never know the truth.

“All the sudden, it’s just going to stop and we’re not going to have answers,” Ms. George said. “And that’s very unsettling to a lot of people. It’s the fear of the unknown.”

Unmanned drones, which have exploded into popular usage in recent years and can be used for everything from mapping to photography to farming, can be difficult to track. Operators of all but the smallest drones have been required to register with the federal government since 2015, but there is no straightforward, legal way for state and local officials to identify the owner of a particular drone or to track that drone’s location.

“Like in many other areas of drone regulation, the statutory and regulatory framework is lagging the technology,” said Reggie Govan, a former chief counsel to the F.A.A. who now teaches at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. “It’s just that simple.”

Mr. Govan said that federal officials had tracking tools to figure out where the Colorado and Nebraska drones were coming from, but that the vast area over which the drones were operating could make that task difficult.

Limitations in drone detection have allowed rogue drone operators to approach the White House without raising alarms and, in another extreme case, to deploy homemade bombs in a Pennsylvania neighborhood. Though it was not clear that the drones flying over Colorado and Nebraska were violating the law, residents and local officials said they would welcome the proposed new F.A.A. rule that would make it easier to identify drones.

“Most people are very reasonable, and they say it could be somebody mapping or doing topography,” said Michael Yowell, a sheriff’s captain in Lincoln County, Colo., whose house was buzzed over by a drone squadron on New Year’s Eve. “But you can’t rule out what you don’t know.”

The drone sightings started in northeast Colorado around mid-December and have only grown more widespread since then. Almost all the sightings have occurred between sunset and about 10 p.m., though Ms. Blackman said she had seen them out later one night in Nebraska and, for the first time on Wednesday, during daylight hours. She said she had looked at them through binoculars and did not see any markings, just plain silver and white coloring.

Across the state line in Colorado, Captain Yowell tried to photograph the drones on Tuesday night with the camera he uses to document crime scenes, but came away without a clear image. He estimated that up to 30 drones were flying each night, though not all in the same place.

He said local officials were studying the flight path of the drones and coordinating across county lines to figure out where they were coming from. If his analysis was correct, he said, the drones would be back out on Wednesday night, flying in a grid pattern in the rural area between Hugo and Karval, Colo., about 100 miles southeast of Denver.

“We want to know, at around 10 o’clock, when we start to lose visuals of these, which direction are they homing? Which way are they heading?” Captain Yowell said. “We hope that’s how we can contact somebody on the ground.”

Sheriff Todd Combs of Yuma County, Colo., said in a Facebook post Tuesday that the drones appeared to be staying at least 150 feet from buildings or people, based on the footage he has seen.

“There are many theories about what is going on, but at this point, that’s all they are,” he said. “I think we are all feeling a little bit vulnerable due to the intrusion of our privacy that we enjoy in our rural community, but I don’t have a solution.”

nyt
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jan, 2020 04:28 pm
@hightor,
Interesting. Another of several recent examples of advances in technology getting ahead of our legal and regulatory structure. As with self-driving trucks and cars, there are major unresolved liability and regulatory issues involved. If memory serves the FAA does not require flight plans for VFR (visual flight rules) flight below 3,000 ft. altitude. The rub here is that this clearly implies the presence of a pilot operating the aircraft who can see and avoid other air traffic - something drones cannot do.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2020 06:03 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Another of several recent examples of advances in technology getting ahead of our legal and regulatory structure.

I know. I can't believe how quickly these devices have become commonplace. A few people operating several drones could seriously affect air traffic around busy airports. One drone could terrorize a stadium full of sports fans. And as we've seen, targeted assassinations are within the realm of possibility.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2020 06:18 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
and we made sure he had insurance coverage for them. That did get his attention.
AInt that a fact? Insurance is one of the great levelers for applied tech.

Awhile back I reported about one of our subs who was flying a LIDAR equipped drone over a "Site" that developed a settlement (and flew the damned thing into a phone tower). The insurance case is still going on for that company.
I originally thought he smacked it into a barn but was sorry to learn about the cell phone tower and how the tech was not doing a great job of driving the bus.

As the service purchaser we were an additional insured so its gotten "interesting" from a "NEW BOUNDARIES OF INSURANCE" saga.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2020 06:33 am
@farmerman,
The French won the Battle of Fleurus (1794) with the help of contempory "drones" (observation balloons) of the Compagnie d'aérostiers, the world's first military air unit.
0 Replies
 
 

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