Does faith = religion?

Any given scientist is a human being and subject to the flaws thereof. Like anyone else they may become overly attached to their opinions and become reluctant to release them in the face of opposing evidence or believe them to be confirmed with certainty. Such an occurance would be an incidence of faith. The difference between religious and scientific worldviews is that within the scientific community an incidence of faith is considered to be a negative, rather than a positive, occurance.

Also it is often necessary for a scientist when dealing with fields of science outside their expertise to accept the prevailing bulk of wisdom from that field, supported by the majority of experts therein, on faith. This is simply due to the practical limits that the scientist can not know every field and must have faith in his colleagues to perform their error-checking with due diligence. This is again considered a negative occurance that scientists are forced into through practicality.

Yet the equation of science with faith is a position of ignorance, normally taken by the religious who feel uncomfortable acknowledging the difference between their position and that of science. Since if the difference is accepted then comparison is inevitable, and such a comparison they can not win.

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I just wrote a pretty long-ass paper on a topic similar to this. as far as the word religion goes, i still after 17 years have no idea what the true definition of this word is. the most common viewpoint that i have heard recently is that religion is one person's comittment to something transcendent, or beyond our knowledge. A phenomenon of some sort that cannot be made into a concrete entity, or "reified". Faith is a word that represents a person deepening their relationship with the "ultimate reality", be it God, the inner light, or any phenomenon. In that case, faith is a deeper form of religion. This is not necessarily what i believe, but considering that this is what i'm learning in religion class, i figure why not put it out there?

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no

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reply
By the time a person finishes defining all the terms, life is over...maybe a little vagueness is all right.

But faith to me is of two varieties. The usual kind is just publicly avowing whatever you have to in order to be part of some group.

The real kind is your own private conviction about those things we cannot have observable information about. Like where do babies come from, what is life and what happens when we die and why are we here.

(eta I sort of know where babies come from but I'm still amazed when one shows up...expecting my first grandchild in Oct.)

Religion, literally, means being constrained, tied up. Constraints on what the ego would otherwise like to do. In that sense, it's pretty much the same as "the law" as the Christian religion thinks of it.

Ironically the actual term for salvation in the bible is really liberation (in the original Hebrew), a matter of being set free, let out of jail so to speak. Israel coming out of bondage in Egypt is a picture of it.

But no Christians I ever met ever seemed to think of it that way.

In any event, religion would be the opposite of salvation, in that case.

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No. Religion negates faith.

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three very interesting definitions: [Oxford Dictionary of Current English]

religion; the belief in and worship of a God or gods. 2. a particular system of faith and worship.

faith; 1. complete trust or confidence. 2. strong belief in a religion. 3. a system of religious belief.

unfaithful; 1. not faithful; disloyal. 2. having sexual relations with a person other than one's husband, wife, or lover.

linguistically religion and faith are intertwined; but to lose faith we are degraded to the viceral level.

[is there a conflict of interest here; or perhaps, an 'interest in conflict'?]

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faith according to a prescription = religion.

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Does faith = religion?

No it dosen't. Nor does religion alway's = faith, they can be like night and day. It depends on the viewers ability to have a clear perspective.

Sorry if I repeated anything that has already been stated, i didn't read the whole thread, i don't have time to at the moment.

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Faith - assent to a proposition of dubious credibility - related to hope
Belief - rational
Religion (as defined by Erich Fromm) - any system of thought or action shared by a group which gives the group a frame of orientation and an object of devotion

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Have faith in God and Jesus who is his true son. Go to the church that is best for you.

Enjoy life :-)

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Do you think that we need faith to keep on going in life? Some sort of pillar to support ourselves (which is religion, in numerous cases), to give us hope?
I'm not sure.
Either way, this theory should be dismanteled by the mere existance of atheists, and other variations. If what I said above were true, why aren't all individuals without religion just shooting themselves? I suppose there is a lot of subjective thought to be considered here.
I think that religion is just a name for what drive us. What we need to keep on going is INSPIRATION. Where do we get inspiration from? Religion, faith, etc. It's all connected into a big whole.
You can call the elements anything you like, but the truth is that we all have our own particular dogma we live by, may it be considered right or wrong (i say considered because currently, for me, there is no true conception of rightness).
We all create our own "religion", we all have our faiths.

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There are those on this planet who could not face another hour without their religion. They who have nothing and suffer greatly in various forms of life find consolation and easing of their pain through the same.

So long as they gain comfort, why take it from them?

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Mathos wrote:

There are those on this planet who could not face another hour without their religion. They who have nothing and suffer greatly in various forms of life find consolation and easing of their pain through the same.

So long as they gain comfort, why take it from them?

It's always been a crass argument, I think, for science and atheists to claim that religion 'makes us feel good'. Having parents makes us feel good, running a business makes us feel good, eating good food makes us feel good, being ourselves makes us feel good.. need I say more?

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And you would argue against having parents and having food?

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Thalion wrote:

And you would argue against having parents and having food?

I am arguing that the phrase 'makes me feel good' doesn't make it as an argument against religion any more than having parents 'makes me feel good' is an argument against having parents. But in neither case is it also an argument for having religion and parents.

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It's always used as an arguement for religion, not against it. You misinterpretted Mathos's post.

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Thalion wrote:

It's always used as an arguement for religion, not against it. You misinterpretted Mathos's post.

I would like to say, that any argument limited to 'makes me feel good' is crass, if not curious.

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perceptions
No one really "practices" a particular religion. Religion is simply a reflection and an extension of culture. What someone "believes" is inexorably linked to what they "perceive". The end goal of all religion is to shape (and shade) our perception of the world around us. Yet through all the inaccuracies and fallacies of religious practices around the world, every person is ultimately driven by their faith (not religion). And faith is as different from person to person as is a fingerprint. It is faith and not religion that renders the human dynamic. It is faith that will move us to react in distinct ways under stress; when there is no time to think and analyze.

Whatever my religion, my faith is shaped by what I believe (perceive) to be true and not the practices of my religion. If I am placed in a situation, for example, where I can save a life by sacrificing my own (a most dire situation), it is the measure of my faith, not my religion, as to whether I will commit myself to such a sacrifice.

Regardless of the origins of my religion, what I am really practicing is based on my perceptions of the world around me. It is my faith.

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Re: perceptions

chris2a wrote:

No one really "practices" a particular religion. Religion is simply a reflection and an extension of culture. What someone "believes" is inexorably linked to what they "perceive". The end goal of all religion is to shape (and shade) our perception of the world around us. Yet through all the inaccuracies and fallacies of religious practices around the world, every person is ultimately driven by their faith (not religion). And faith is as different from person to person as is a fingerprint. It is faith and not religion that renders the human dynamic. It is faith that will move us to react in distinct ways under stress; when there is no time to think and analyze.

I am Greek Orthodox but my faith is shaped by what I believe (perceive) to be true and not the practices of my religion. If I am placed in a situation, for example, where I can save a life by sacrificing my own (a most dire situation), it is the measure of my faith, not my religion, as to whether I will commit myself to such a sacrifice.

Regardless of the origins of my religion, what I am really practicing is based on my perceptions of the world around me. It is my faith.

Chris Andreadis
Athens, Greece

No one practices a religion because it is an integral part of culture, - fair enough... but then you go on to say that our culture 'employs' religion to change our perception or religious beliefs. That lot needs sorting out.

Also a perception cannot be said to be 'a belief'. You want to dump that idea too.
Ta.

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Re: perceptions

John Jones wrote:

No one practices a religion because it is an integral part of culture, - fair enough... but then you go on to say that our culture 'employs' religion to change our perception or religious beliefs. That lot needs sorting out.

Also a perception cannot be said to be 'a belief'. You want to dump that idea too.
Ta.

Thanks for your insight and I would like to clarify the semantics of my observation. On a conceptual level, the term "perception" and "religious belief" are mutually exclusive and the "or" conjunctive is incorrect. The former relates to a cognitive process while the latter is a stored memory.

Faith is not confined to religious doctrine. When I turn on the water faucet, I have "faith" that it will fall into the glass below and not rise to the ceiling. I know this because I have always seen water fall. I subsequently acquire a perception of the phenomenon we call gravity. I believe that gravity exists based on my perceptual understanding of it which is in turn based on the information acquired through my senses.

The connotation of faith is that it is the acceptance of transcendental concepts such as life after death. Though not incorrect, this idea is incomplete. Ultimately, our "faith" or "belief" in transcendental phenomena is an extrapolation of the sum total of all our acquired perception of the world around us (we simply have no other substantive reference).

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Does faith = religion?

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