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Does faith = religion?

 
 
littlek
 
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Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:13 pm
Nietzche - hmmm....

Lash, I still don't agree, though it's an interesting angle.
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Lash
 
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Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:16 pm
DAMMIT!!!!!

Would everybody give their definition or an example of amoral??? This is bugging me.

Where are you people?
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littlek
 
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Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:18 pm
Good idea, Lash! Don't we already have some examples and definitions?
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Lash
 
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Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:24 pm
<Was hoping to see what other people thought, since we are at a stalemate--not trying to convince...just like to know what other people think... >

Thought-provoking questions on this thread.
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littlek
 
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Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:26 pm
Quote:
"Amoral" is a rather technical word meaning "unrelated to morality." When you mean to denounce someone's behavior, call it "immoral."


Quote:
Amoral (the first syllable rhymes with day), means "above, beyond, or apart from moral consideration," and "neither moral nor immoral." Immoral means "not in conformity with the moral code of behavior, not moral."


Quote:
The amoral person is unaware of morality, while the immoral person actively transgresses against it. Babies are amoral, while politicians are all too often immoral.


Quote:
Nonmoral actions or events: those areas of interest where moral categories cannot be applied

................

Immoral actions or events: those areas of interest where moral categories do apply and of are such a kind as to be evil, sinful, or wrong according to some code or theory of ethics.

...............

Amoral actions or events: those areas of interest exhibiting indifference to and not abiding by the moral rules or codes of society.

.............

"Amoral" in dictionaries is sometimes defined with reference to value-free situations (neither moral nor immoral).

..........

"Amoral" is also used (in philosophy) in contrast to nonmoral and immoral. This area would include nonintentional (but not necessarily unintentional) actions.

Intesting site: Lander
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littlek
 
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Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:26 pm
I agree, Lash, I started this to try and figure out exactly what I thought. It's been interesting.
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:32 pm
It's kinda like trying to distinguish atheist and agnostic, when you get into amoral and immoral. They're quite distinct concepts, but people aren't always familiar with them.

That was a great reference, littlek. I especially like the bit about babies being amoral. It helps clarify the term.
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littlek
 
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Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:45 pm
I guess because morality is at it's basis, individual (I think), it's never going to be exactly the same to everyone? Or should it be defined exactly for everyone?
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Nietzsche
 
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Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 08:38 pm
Morality is culturally relative.
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Reyn
 
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Reply Sat 9 Apr, 2005 04:05 pm
Lash wrote:
You can go to church and not have faith, and you can have faith and not go to church...

Very well put. This is how I feel on the subject as well. I am not a Christian, or belong to any other organized religion as such. I do not go to a "church", but I feel a connection to something greater than myself. Call it "God" if you like. It's just a matter of what label you put on it.

I have had no personal experience, but I have "faith" that "life" continues after what we call "death". Is that religious? I don't think so.
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pokey606
 
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Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2005 05:56 pm
does faith equal religion
I personally am not a religious person, I was born into Judaism but I do not practice the religion nor do I believe in it. As of right now my definition of what religion is is not clear. There are just so many different ideas which go into religion not including all the different types of religions that there are. I do think however that I have faith. To me faith is something everyone has to have to live. Faith is the life energy that keeps us going. Without having faith to encourage us we cannot be motivated to do whatever it is we are to do. For example I am about to graduate highschool and go to college I have faith that college will lead me to the right direction as to where I want to take my life in the future. Without this faith college would seem pointless to me.
I wish I had a more clear understand of what religion is because then maybe I could answer the question in a more clear way. But what I have learned in religion class is that the problem with religion these days, especially western religion is that religion has become a name, something one defines. But its original meaning was suppose to be something each person experiances and feels. Which is why perhaps at this time I dont believe in a religion because I haven't had any religious experiances or feelings within me.
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microbiologistgal
 
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Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 10:19 pm
Re: Does faith = religion?
littlek wrote:
Does faith in uncertainty = religion? Does love = religion? Does love = uncertain faith?



A pedestrian way to look at religion is that it is a set of beliefs or values based on ideas or teachings. I do not believe that is faith, and it certainly isn't love.

Pokey seems to be equating faith with hope. I think that is a pretty good (though slightly loose) definition. Good luck in college Wink

You can have religion without love, faith without religion, and love without faith. In my mind they are related, but by no means the same.

Good topic Smile
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Omar de Fati
 
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Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 10:51 pm
Re: Does faith = religion?
Faith in uncertainty is not religious. Adherence to science's ideals & practices can be religious & in my opinion should be endorsed by the state.

I think it's hard to believe there are "scientific theories" unexplainable even by the scientists who formulated them. There are a god awful number of theories not understood by 'everyone'.

There's distinct & peculiar differences between the faith one has regarding god's will & faith one has in scientific principles. The first & most glaring difference is semantic, e.g. having faith a loved one will beat cancer because a million people prayed accordingly versus having faith ice will float in water. The former example is illogical; the latter is logical. These two 'faiths' correspond to religious faith & scientific faith respectively.

A second distinction is based on integrity. Faith regarding god's will is illogical because it's unwarranted except for it's own sake. A person has faith in god's will <i>because</i> having said faith is a virtue of one's faith. Having faith in a scientific 'theory' is warranted when the theory survives scrutiny. No scientist has faith in a scientific 'theory' once it's proven false, unless the scientist is insane.

Quote:

Does faith in uncertainty = religion? Does love = religion? Does love = uncertain faith?


No, faith in uncertainty is not religion & I doubt such a faith-type exists. Based on your description, it appears to be an apologetic leap of faith (forgive the pun) to associate scientific adherence to uncertainty & religion.

Love has nothing to do with faith or religion.
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ossobuco
 
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Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 10:52 pm
I agree it's a good, even great topic. Have just riffed through it with various spurts of partial comments to self.

Well, I'll start out with, naaaah.

But will try to spiff up my commentary next time.
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pokey606
 
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Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 01:18 pm
Response to faith
Well this weekend I went to visit Vermont and with the faith that I had inside of me fell in love with University of Vermont and I have decided to go there for college. I have faith that I will do well there and that I will be a good place for me to attend.
I feel as though I am still learning about what faith is and with all these different definations thrown at me I must admit I am more confused that I was in the beginning but as I learned certain things don't need to be defined just experianced.
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fredjones
 
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Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 06:39 pm
Re: Does faith = religion?
Omar de Fati wrote:
No scientist has faith in a scientific 'theory' once it's proven false, unless the scientist is insane.


This comment is very true. Unfortunately the existence of anything spiritual, esp. god, cannot be proven nor can it be disproved. So are people insane for having faith? I suspect not, but it is interesting how absolutely sure some people are that their specific beliefs are correct. With that in mind, I think that religion is a kind of subset of faith. Meaning, faith is a general feeling, while religion is a specific set of beliefs. That is why most people have faith, but there are a multitude of different religions.
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littlek
 
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Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 07:00 pm
FredJones, do you need a bandaid?

Thanks all for posting.

I have faith in science. I might even love some aspects of science to some degree. But, I don't see it as my religion. I am religionless. I like that there are things we can't explain: it's not blind faith, it's a challenge.
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littlek
 
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Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 07:04 pm
Reyn wrote:
I am not a Christian, or belong to any other organized religion as such. I do not go to a "church", but I feel a connection to something greater than myself. Call it "God" if you like. It's just a matter of what label you put on it.

I have had no personal experience, but I have "faith" that "life" continues after what we call "death". Is that religious? I don't think so.


Very interesting. I see a belief in a supreme guide - god/intelligent designer/supreme being/etc - and belief in after life as two key bases of all religion. Possible the only common basis of all religions.
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ossobuco
 
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Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 07:43 pm
Quoting littlek -
I have faith in science. I might even love some aspects of science to some degree. But, I don't see it as my religion. I am religionless. I like that there are things we can't explain: it's not blind faith, it's a challenge.



Great post, in my opinion.
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littlek
 
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Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 07:45 pm
Why thank you, Osso. Coming from you, that means a lot.
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