4
   

It's started the PURGE has begon!

 
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 11:10 am
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:

Quote:
Yes, well the antidote remains the same. Call it 'naive' or 'unrealistic' to expect to heal from fascism, but without healing, it will only keep getting worse.


true, I agree there, I only want to say it won't be enough.

We need to turn our back to the very very very sick system run by psychopaths and criminaly insane at the top of this very very sick system.. Yes I am talking presidents and royality.

'Top' people are just people, ultimately. A big part of fascism is the human mind's capacity to imagine status as more than just an imaginary attribute.

People are all ultimately just living human bodies. Ending fascism requires recognizing all people as just people and treating each other with respect, honoring each others' liberty, and preventing people from undermining or abusing liberty, which provokes fascism/authoritarianism because you can't go on tolerating liberty endlessly if/when it is being abused to cause detriment.
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 12:19 pm
@livinglava,
man o man

Quote:
'Top' people are just people, ultimately.


Yes I know, but I am referring to their 'place' in the 'hierarchy'.
I thought you would understand that,

Quote:
People are all ultimately just living human bodies.


I disagree here.

Quote:
Ending fascism requires recognizing all people as just people and treating each other with respect, honoring each others' liberty, and preventing people from undermining or abusing liberty, which provokes fascism/authoritarianism because you can't go on tolerating liberty endlessly if/when it is being abused to cause detriment.


It depends from what level you are looking at it.
Anyway, at the moment, the people at the 'top',
want a fascist world. That is their ultimate goal.
If you understand how extremely sick these 'people' really are,,,,
livinglava
 
  -1  
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 05:41 am
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:
Yes I know, but I am referring to their 'place' in the 'hierarchy'.
I thought you would understand that,

You say, 'the hierarchy,' as if it is an objective thing that exists outside of human cultural information. Hierarchies and places within them are just logics for justifying selective application of force.

What you have to understand is that violence and force are hardwired into the brains of all animals, not just humans. What's different about humans is we have the capacity to exercise foresight and control/discipline ourselves to avert consequences.

That foresight and self-control/discipline can be abused by people who want to enforce arbitrary prerogative over others, or people can reason with each other about what is good to achieve, which is beyond personal prerogative. Some people reject this, claiming that even reason itself is just a way of dressing up the prerogative to subjugate some according to the prerogative of others.

What is clear to me is that, ideally, people should all respect and honor each others' liberty, but I don't think there is unlimited freedom to behave however you want and then blame others where you are attacked for doing things that are deemed unacceptable for various reasons. Sometimes you can legitimately complain if you are disciplined for something that isn't actually a problem, like your race/ethnicity, gender, sexual identity, etc. but other times you are actually guilty of doing things or participating in culture that may not be criminal, i.e. because the democratic legislative process doesn't always work to criminalize and control everything that's bad, but you are still guilty of causing detriment, and then you should realize that when detriment is being caused, by government, private individuals/businesses, and/or both; the situation is going to keep escalating. You can complain that you're being treated unfairly, and truly you are, but there's no way around it because it is something that happens irregardless of what the government or anyone else would do to control it. Ultimately, some things are only solved by independent self-discipline of free individuals, and in the absence of that self-control, things just keep getting worse without any hope for controlling them by external means - yet the external attempts to control them by force and violence will keep getting progressively harsher.

Quote:
Quote:
People are all ultimately just living human bodies.

I disagree here.

I didn't say that's all they are, but they are souls embodied in bodies, like other animals. They/we all have to deal with the architecture of our biological and other material 'infrastructure.'

Quote:
It depends from what level you are looking at it.
Anyway, at the moment, the people at the 'top',
want a fascist world. That is their ultimate goal.
If you understand how extremely sick these 'people' really are,,,,

It's a fascist fiction to imagine that fascism comes from the top-down. During/after WWII it was called the 'cult of the fuhrer.' In reality, the people want certain things, which they see as possible given proper use of top-down authority/power. Thus the people vocalize and urge their desires and complaints about authority in order to push people in 'positions of power' to effectuate the will of the people/majority.

If everyday people were perfectly disciplined and benevolent, it would be difficult if not impossible to achieve fascist authoritarianism. It is because everyday people view themselves as relatively powerless that they feel comfortable exercising the power they have to effectuate top-down authority to satisfy their desires, which are mostly centered around material desires.

People are sinners in the religious sense, driven by greed, envy, lust, gluttony, pride, etc. Pride causes them to deny that they are bad. You will here them say things like, "well I would like to make more money than I do, but I wouldn't say I am greedy," They justify their greed by noting that there are lots of people richer than they are, which is an expression of envy. Pride is what causes them to deny and whitewash their sins, including pride. They will get angry at someone like me saying this because it hurts their pride. Humans have the capacity to confess/repent these sins, humble themselves, and rise above the petty fascism, but doing so requires effort and sacrifice; so they generally prefer to just blame others, especially "people in power," for what mostly comes from the bottom-up.


OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 06:20 am
@livinglava,
sigh..plllleeeeaasssseeeee.

you make things way too complex. There IS a group(at the top) that want a fascists world.
Very simple. This is a plan that is years and years in the making.
And they are succeeding, just look around you!
This plan is called "The Work Of Ages" and it's in it's last phase, also called "The End Game".

Now you can try to denial all you want , but this IS going on.

Hence the latest PURGE from those psychopaths at facebook and other sillicon Valley psychopathic companies ( =Pentagon).



( BTW are you religious and/or scientific schooled (both are of course the same thing.) ?
livinglava
 
  -1  
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 02:43 pm
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:

sigh..plllleeeeaasssseeeee.

you make things way too complex. There IS a group(at the top) that want a fascists world.
Very simple. This is a plan that is years and years in the making.
And they are succeeding, just look around you!
This plan is called "The Work Of Ages" and it's in it's last phase, also called "The End Game".

Now you can try to denial all you want , but this IS going on.

Hence the latest PURGE from those psychopaths at facebook and other sillicon Valley psychopathic companies ( =Pentagon).



( BTW are you religious and/or scientific schooled (both are of course the same thing.) ?

As long as you construe it as a problem that comes from 'the top,' you are in denial of what the masses want and why they continue to support fascist/authoritarian forms of power. All you have to do is think about what would happen if the people 'at the top,' would suddenly promote liberty and protect everyone against anyone interfering with their freedom.

Do you think they would all behave themselves, respect each other and the environment, and take great care of the planet? No, they compete to be the rich elite who gets to be the one to enjoy the privilege of living gluttonously and wastefully. They are mostly greedy materialists who don't care about their effects on the planet and the future. Ask people whether they are willing to change the way they live to a lifestyle that is achievable for everyone on Earth and yet still would not be detrimental to the long term future of humans and the environment and they will make excuses why they're not.
Setanta
 
  2  
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 04:17 pm
Well, Livinglava obviously knows nothing about Fascism.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 05:40 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Well, Livinglava obviously knows nothing about Fascism.

Here, I'll help you reformulate your statement here so it is less fascist/authoritarian:

First, don't refer to me as a person as a scapegoat and use a group/norm-rallying term like, 'obviously,' as your main persuasive argument. All you are doing is appealing to the group-submission instinct in your reader to go with the flow of what is 'obvious,' out of fear of not sharing in the collective knowledge of what is 'obvious,' to the group.

Instead, explain your argument as if you were talking to someone who was not part of any cultural group, i.e. an alien from outer space. So then, you're not appealing to any kind of group cultural assumptions, only reason.

Now, while not attacking a scapegoat as part of your argument, persuade your reader using clear explanation and reason. Remember, you aren't goading the reader into accepting what you are saying out of fear of shunning or hate, etc. You are imploring them to understand your reasoning, and ONLY when they fully understand your reasoning do you expect them to submit to what you are saying.

That is how you sollicit reasonable cooperation without fascist emotional manipulation and scapegoating. Go ahead, try it. I bet you can do it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 05:57 pm
I will go along with the idea that as far as knowledge of history, politics and even the English language, you might as well be an alien from outer space.
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:42 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:

As long as you construe it as a problem that comes from 'the top,' you are in denial of what the masses want and why they continue to support fascist/authoritarian forms of power. All you have to do is think about what would happen if the people 'at the top,' would suddenly promote liberty and protect everyone against anyone interfering with their freedom.

Do you think they would all behave themselves, respect each other and the environment, and take great care of the planet? No, they compete to be the rich elite who gets to be the one to enjoy the privilege of living gluttonously and wastefully. They are mostly greedy materialists who don't care about their effects on the planet and the future. Ask people whether they are willing to change the way they live to a lifestyle that is achievable for everyone on Earth and yet still would not be detrimental to the long term future of humans and the environment and they will make excuses why they're not.


Construe????????????????????????????????? man o man you don't even have a clue!

And, once again, are you religious or a scientists?
livinglava
 
  -1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2018 05:56 am
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:

Quote:

As long as you construe it as a problem that comes from 'the top,' you are in denial of what the masses want and why they continue to support fascist/authoritarian forms of power. All you have to do is think about what would happen if the people 'at the top,' would suddenly promote liberty and protect everyone against anyone interfering with their freedom.

Do you think they would all behave themselves, respect each other and the environment, and take great care of the planet? No, they compete to be the rich elite who gets to be the one to enjoy the privilege of living gluttonously and wastefully. They are mostly greedy materialists who don't care about their effects on the planet and the future. Ask people whether they are willing to change the way they live to a lifestyle that is achievable for everyone on Earth and yet still would not be detrimental to the long term future of humans and the environment and they will make excuses why they're not.


Construe????????????????????????????????? man o man you don't even have a clue!

And, once again, are you religious or a scientists?

I don't think you have a clue about how to reason explicitly.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Tue 23 Oct, 2018 06:13 am
Putting someone on ignore is not bullying them. When their backs are to the wall fascists decide to play the victim card instead of growing a pair. Can't say I'm surprised, it's in their lickspittle nature.
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2018 09:06 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
I don't think you have a clue about how to reason explicitly.


And, once again, are you religious or a scientists?
livinglava
 
  -1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2018 05:29 pm
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:

Quote:
I don't think you have a clue about how to reason explicitly.


And, once again, are you religious or a scientists?


Both and more. Do lack both religion and scientific understanding, or are you just against them?
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 07:33 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
Both and more.


Duh? elaborate.

i have studied, alas, at university level.

It took me years to unlearn that bullshit and bollocks after I found out it was ONLY used for CONTROL.

We are heading for a scientific dictatorship and a technocracy, better called technocrazy!

don't believe me at my word.

Research!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mLx%2BJ7exL._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Quote:
https://www.amazon.com/Technocracy-Rising-Trojan-Global-Transformation/dp/0986373907/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1540474419&sr=8-1&keywords=technocracy+rising

The dark horse of the New World Order is not Communism, Socialism or Fascism. It is Technocracy.

With meticulous detail and an abundance of original research, Patrick M. Wood uses Technocracy Rising to connect the dots of modern globalization in a way that has never been seen before so that the reader can clearly understand the globalization plan, its perpetrators and its intended endgame.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 09:42 am
How Kaczynski-esque
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 04:53 pm
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:

Quote:
Both and more.

Duh? elaborate.

I have no interest in elaborated about myself. Religion is good and science is valid and important. That doesn't mean that everything said and written within either category is equally valid and/or good.

Quote:
i have studied, alas, at university level.

It took me years to unlearn that bullshit and bollocks after I found out it was ONLY used for CONTROL.

A lot of ideology is propagated via academic discourse, just as there is through media, politics, etc. Whatever channels are available for communication, people will use those to propagate ideologies, and often unwittingly since many people (if not most) aren't able to recognize the ideologies inherent in what they are saying.

Quote:
We are heading for a scientific dictatorship and a technocracy, better called technocrazy!

don't believe me at my word.

Research!

I hope you realize that any book contains and propagates ideology. I guess this one contains the ideology you like, but you shouldn't worship it. You should formulate your own understand of things and discuss your POV by explaining your reasoning and subjecting it to critical engagement. Doing so is not submitting to academic control, unless you allow that. It's up to you to continue thinking critically and questioning the POVs of those you are in discussion with, including their critiques of what you are saying/thinking.
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 11:16 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
Religion is good and science is valid and important. That doesn't mean that everything said and written within either category is equally valid and/or good.


Ok, thank you.
Well, I think religion is absolutely NO good at all and neither is science (which is just a kind of a religion). But because you 'are into' both it explains a lot about your 'reasoning'. That is , it shows that you are very deeply mind controlled by both (not your fault) , hence you can't think straight anymore. Exactly what your postings are showing.


Quote:
A lot of ideology is propagated via academic discourse, just as there is through media, politics, etc. Whatever channels are available for communication, people will use those to propagate ideologies, and often unwittingly since many people (if not most) aren't able to recognize the ideologies inherent in what they are saying.


You have NO clue about how mind-control really works.

Quote:
I hope you realize that any book contains and propagates ideology. I guess this one contains the ideology you like, but you shouldn't worship it. You should formulate your own understand of things and discuss your POV by explaining your reasoning and subjecting it to critical engagement. Doing so is not submitting to academic control, unless you allow that. It's up to you to continue thinking critically and questioning the POVs of those you are in discussion with, including their critiques of what you are saying/thinking.


Once again, you have NO CLUE at all and try to keep within the lines of your religion including science. You think you are able to judge a book, only by it's cover. How stupid is that, eh?!


And with all respect, but I stop talking with you, because you are not even able to follow a simple line, again, all this because of your religion and , again also a religion, science.

It is of no use trying to talk with you.
farmerman
 
  3  
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 11:37 pm
@OldGrumpy,
Quote:
I t is of no use trying to talk with you.


I would add further that it is of no use for you to try talking with anyone. You live in a world of alternative "facts" , that requires full immersion into fable and conspiracy looniness.
"youre hardly ever right but youre never in doubt"
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Sat 27 Oct, 2018 09:38 am
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:
Ok, thank you.
Well, I think religion is absolutely NO good at all and neither is science (which is just a kind of a religion). But because you 'are into' both it explains a lot about your 'reasoning'. That is , it shows that you are very deeply mind controlled by both (not your fault) , hence you can't think straight anymore. Exactly what your postings are showing.

Rather than shoot into defense of religion and science, as I understand them, I'm more interested in how you think in what you consider to be valid reason while avoiding/excluding anything that might be considered to connect with science and/or religious ideas/traditions.

Quote:

You have NO clue about how mind-control really works.

I think I do, but maybe those thoughts are just a sub-conscious product of mind control. Unless you embark on a clear discussion of mind-control, there's really no point in speculating either way.

Quote:
Once again, you have NO CLUE at all and try to keep within the lines of your religion including science. You think you are able to judge a book, only by it's cover. How stupid is that, eh?!

I don't. All I said was a caveat based on what I generally understand about publication of information. I'm not planning on buying/reading this book unless you posts excepts for discussion here, though, so if all you're trying to do is promote a book because it benefits you in some way to do that, please don't waste time and thread posts.

Quote:
And with all respect, but I stop talking with you, because you are not even able to follow a simple line, again, all this because of your religion and , again also a religion, science.

It is of no use trying to talk with you.

Ok, if you are a person who needs to bow out in a way that saves face, go ahead and do that.
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Sat 27 Oct, 2018 09:50 am
@livinglava,
deaf?!

Quote:
It is of no use trying to talk with you.
 

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