is "The Shroud of Turin" for real?

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well, no, of course not.

First of all there was no man called 'jesus'. 'he' was just a symbol for something else. Hence, if there never was a 'jesus', there couldn't have been a 'shrine'.

What are your thought on this?

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[+3] - coluber2001 - 10/06/2018The Shroud of Turin was proved to be a fraud and a poor attempt at that. The image was that which one would see looking head on at a person's face. The image of a shroud would not even appear...
[+3] - coluber2001 - 10/07/2018It's pretty much irrelevant whether Christ the man really existed or not, since the myth has displaced the historical value of the man. I'm not making any value judgments as to the value of the...

@OldGrumpy,

How would you know there was no man called Jesus? It doesn't even have to do with religion, just from an historical POV?

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There is no definitive proof that a real Jesus existed.

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Shrine? The author here seems to have problems keeping track of his own BS.

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"Jesus" is, by the way, just a corruption of Yeshua. Was there some religious nutter named Yeshua in the early first century CE, loose somewhere in Palestine? I suspect that if you stood on a roof overlooking the temple square at Passover, and threw a handful of pea gravel into the crowd, you'd likely hit a half dozen religious nutters named Yeshua. I figure it's about a 50-50 shot. There might have been such an individual upon whom all the silly scriptural stories are based; or, the Yeshua referred to was actually an Essene parable.

What definitely is bullsh*t, though, is the so-called New Testament. It is so full of internal contradictions and outright historical falsehoods, that it just lends itself to ridicule.

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@najmelliw,

Quote:

How would you know there was no man called Jesus? It doesn't even have to do with religion, just from an historical POV?

Simple. First of all there is no historical evidence at all, and secondly 'jesus' is just a symbol for something. Once you see what symbol it becomes all crystal clear.

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The Shroud of Turin was proved to be a fraud and a poor attempt at that. The image was that which one would see looking head on at a person's face. The image of a shroud would not even appear human, because the cloth wrapped around the face and spread out would be much wider than a human's face.

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It's pretty much irrelevant whether Christ the man really existed or not, since the myth has displaced the historical value of the man. I'm not making any value judgments as to the value of the Christian religion itself. The depth of the religion depends on every Christian individual's inner experience and interpretation of the religion.

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@coluber2001,

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The depth ...

Too true, although if I may wade in and have someone cleanse my toes, the length and breadth of it's educational merit may be limited to the parables.

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@OldGrumpy,

OldGrumpy wrote:

Simple. First of all there is no historical evidence at all,

The absence of proof of someone's existence is not proof that they never existed.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

There is no definitive proof that a real Jesus existed.

A non-existent person would be unlikely to convince a large group of people to become his followers.

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@coluber2001,

coluber2001 wrote:

The Shroud of Turin was proved to be a fraud and a poor attempt at that. The image was that which one would see looking head on at a person's face. The image of a shroud would not even appear human, because the cloth wrapped around the face and spread out would be much wider than a human's face.

There is reason to believe that it was not an actual burial shroud, but there is no reason to think that the people who created it ever tried to represent it as a burial shroud. People in later centuries just jumped to conclusions.

There is a good case to be made that it is the world's first photograph.

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@oralloy,

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A non-existent person would be unlikely to convince a large group of people to become his followers.

well, that's why it didn't happen! Only later the story of the mythical jesus was
invented. 'jesus' never was real, He was just a symbol for something, as were
'avatars' that lived hundreds of years before him, and where also born a virgin,
betrayed, crucified and raised from the death. The story isn't really nothing new at all! They are all myths.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

The absence of proof of someone's existence is not proof that they never existed.

Well, for some people maybe, but NOTHING was found in that time in
books, writings, teachings etc etc. While the romans were very keen on
writing mostly everything down. And don't you think 'jesus' was noticed?

Anyway, that is not the only thing. There is so much more that shows there never was a real historical 'jesus'. Again 'jesus' is a myth and only a symbol for something else.

And, well, if 'jesus' was a myth, well that also means that the 'shroud' hasn't got his impression on it, because 'he' didn't exist.

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@OldGrumpy,

Soooooooo, what's the point of all this? Just trying to upset the believers? Not that I care all that much, but then why not ask "How big is infinity, or some of the other crap we all used to pontificate about in our dorms"? "What happens when you die?" "Is there a heaven" "why were there only 3 stooges, and not 5?"

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@glitterbag,

Quote:

Soooooooo, what's the point of all this? Just trying to upset the believers? Not that I care all that much, but then why not ask "How big is infinity, or some of the other crap we all used to pontificate about in our dorms"? "What happens when you die?" "Is there a heaven" "why were there only 3 stooges, and not 5?"

The point? getting to the bottom of things! Upset believers is not my intent but I also don't care if it does.
What's your problem with this? If you don't like it don't read it and go somewhere else.
Btw 'what happens when you die' is also very interesting to me. maybe you can start a thread.

I really don't understand people who have issues with what someone is writing here.
There is free speech (yes even if someone has problems with it! otherwise it wouldn't be free speech, now, would it?) so read or leave. It's that simple.

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@OldGrumpy,

Yeah, I figured as much. I don't have a problem with free speech, but it sure seems like you do. But never you mind honey bunch, I don't think "Old Grumpy" is for real.

Discuss amongst yourselves.,,,,,,,,,,or not...

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@glitterbag,

Quote:

Yeah, I figured as much. I don't have a problem with free speech, but it sure seems like you do. But never you mind honey bunch, I don't think "Old Grumpy" is for real.

Discuss amongst yourselves.,,,,,,,,,,or not...

Nio, I have no problem with free speech, why do you say?

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@OldGrumpy,

It may surprise you to learn that being born a virgin is not all that uncommon, really.

I am not ready to disbelieve the existence of a Jesus figure, simply because there is no historical evidence that he existed. It's not as if lack of such evidence is absolute proof he didn't exist, as oralloy already mentioned.

I think the shroud of Turin is pretty much bullshit, but harmless at that. If people wish to believe in its origin story, kudos to them. They don't bother me, or harm anyone by doing so, in my book.

As for the bible itself, I know it (being raised a christian and all), but I don't believe in it. Frankly, even if everything inside was proven to be 100% true, I find it quite ridiculous to use moral guidelines set in a society that existed 2000 years ago in today's world.

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@najmelliw,

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It may surprise you to learn that being born a virgin is not all that uncommon, really.

suprised? hell no, I wrote that even!

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I am not ready to disbelieve the existence of a Jesus figure, simply because there is no historical evidence that he existed.

As I wrote there is not only that, but so much more. 'jesus' and others are only a symbol for something and nothing more, nothing real.

Quote:

It's not as if lack of such evidence is absolute proof he didn't exist, as oralloy already mentioned.

see my reply above.

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is "The Shroud of Turin" for real?

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