joefromchicago wrote:Someone needs to pull the plug on this thread.
????
Why is that? How do you discuss something without discussing it?
It's been discussed to death.
You can't prove that....
Nah, just kidding. Let's let it die!
Cycloptichorn
I don't know that I have much to add, but I am as committed as ever to doing what I can to prevent there ever being another Terri Schiavo case. But really guys, if you're sick of the subject, why keep checking in here? Those who are still working out their conflicted feelings in their mind could still benefit from the exercise and this is as good a place to do it as any.
J_B wrote:...And you still haven't answered my question. Would you be having this discussion if the Shindlers had agreed with Michael and it was a third party who was trying to intervene?
If she is aware of her own existence (and, no, everyone does not agree about that), then I would be against starving her unless she had specifically asked for that in writing. In that case, I don't care if a million people agree.
I do feel, generally, however, that there is something highly unplatable about her husband killing her over the screaming objections of her blood relatives.
Foxfyre wrote:Geli writes
Quote:She was denied nothing but a feeding tube .... her family could have brought her food or water any time
Her family was denied the right to put a cool damp cloth to her lips or moisten her mouth. People were arrested trying to smuggle water in to her. Nurses and aides who testified that Terri at one time was able to take small amounts of soft foods and liquids orally were ordered to stop giving these to her. Terri Schiavo was intentionally killed.
Why, if she could take food orally, would they perform a surgical procedure and insert a feeding tube? A damp cloth would save her .... and the drop of wine for comunion?
Do you have documentation?
Montana wrote:joefromchicago wrote:Someone needs to pull the plug on this thread.
I couldn't agree more!
I agree in that I don't think it should have been something to discuss to begin with. To me this was a private matter between Michael Schiavo and the Shindlers and never should have become a national cause.
With that, I'll be quite now.
Terri Schiavo was intentionally killed
Terri Schiavo died in an accident 15 years ago.
The thing lying on the bed isn't her, any more than your body without the mind is you.
Cycloptichorn
Quote, "Her family was denied the right to put a cool damp cloth to her lips or moisten her mouth. People were arrested trying to smuggle water in to her. Nurses and aides who testified that Terri at one time was able to take small amounts of soft foods and liquids orally were ordered to stop giving these to her. Terri Schiavo was intentionally killed."
PLEASE PROVIDE PROOF.
Foxfyre wrote:I don't know that I have much to add, but I am as committed as ever to doing what I can to prevent there ever being another Terri Schiavo case. But really guys, if you're sick of the subject, why keep checking in here? Those who are still working out their conflicted feelings in their mind could still benefit from the exercise and this is as good a place to do it as any.
I hear what you're saying, Fox and I agree with you. It's just that everyone here has already expressed their opinions over and over again and no one is getting anywhere. I would like to go on roof tops and scream to the world how wrong I think this was, but you can only scream so much before you lose your voice.
I keep coming back to this thread because it keeps pulling me here. It's probably because I feel as strongly about this as you do, but it's just at the point where everyone is repeating themselves over and over again and I can't see what good that could do.
Montana wrote:It's been discussed to death.
Let me guess ..... you and Cy got off at the wrong thread?
By golly, I can eat solid foods and drink on my own while I am healthy and have my ability to think and act at will (have cognition). If I am ever in a brain-damaged state like Terri, nobody in their right mind better intrude to keep my alive. Especially not the Congress of this country.
Gelisgesti wrote:Montana wrote:It's been discussed to death.
Let me guess ..... you and Cy got off at the wrong thread?
You tryin to tell me somthin
Brandon, You missed my point; show proof that Terri was able to consume food and drink by mouth in her brain damaged state.
Montana wrote:Gelisgesti wrote:Montana wrote:It's been discussed to death.
Let me guess ..... you and Cy got off at the wrong thread?
You tryin to tell me somthin
Nuh Huh .... I mean no mam.....
Schiavo to Die Painlessly, Neurologists Say
John Roach
for National Geographic News
March 28, 2005
The legal wrangling is effectively over: Doctors will not reinsert the feeding tube that kept Terri Schiavo alive for 15 years. Within days the brain-damaged 41-year-old Florida woman will die.
What will she go through in her last days? To find out, National Geographic News asked several neurologists for a medical explanation of Schiavo's condition. They all agreed that, assuming that Schiavo is in fact in a persistent vegetative state, she will not experience physical pain.
Persistent Vegetative State
On February 25, 1990, Schiavo suffered severe brain damage when her heart stopped because of a potassium imbalance. Oxygen was cut off from her brain for about five minutes.
Courted-appointed doctors have consistently said that the brain damage from the cardiac arrest left Schiavo in a persistent vegetative state (PVS). She is unable to eat or drink on her own and, without assistance, will die.
James Bernat is a professor of neurology at the Dartmouth Medical School in Hanover, New Hampshire. He said PVS patients suffer damage to the parts of the brain involved in awareness?-the cerebral cortex, the thalamus, and the connections between them. The brain stem, which is responsible for basic functions like breathing and wakefulness, continues to operate relatively normally.
"This neuronal damage creates a state in which the patient is awake but unaware. The patient's eyes are open while awake and closed while asleep," Bernat said.
PVS patients lack anything resembling a normal, conscious experience, according to Roger Albin, a professor of neurology at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. "A person in that state is completely unaware of anything, including themselves," he said.
Bruce Sigsbee, a neurologist in Rockport, Maine, added that a PVS diagnosis "requires that there is no demonstrated response to any environmental stimulus beyond simple reflexes"?-involuntary movements, such as when a doctor bangs on a patient's knee.
Environmental stimuli used to gauge awareness can range from simple to complex. Examples include touching a patient, giving a simple command, applying what should be moderately painful pressure, and waving an object in hopes of stimulating eye movement.
